I own a 70-442. My car is restored, including a fresh carb rebuild. Prior to the rebuild it would often be difficult to start (so I assumed it was a carb/fuel filter type issue). Now everything is like new (except the same fuel pump as before). I have a new GM Delco HD Gold battery, so that is not the issue. Once I finally get it started, she runs perfectly (zero issues). Is my issue likley a fuel pump issue or possibly something else. Thoughts appreciated.

 

Are you setting the choke properly?

 

For the price of a NEW fuel pump GO FOR IT, they can cause a host of problems, New doesn't mean good but give it a shot, Good Luck.

Johnny

 

The fuel pump does not come into play when starting as there should be ample fuel in the float bowl. If the car sits long enough for that to evaporate, then you will be having serious issues from the dry residue.

 

You could try spraying some starting fluid into the primary bores and see if it starts right up. That could help determine if it's a fuel issue or something else.

 

My guess is the plugs under the carb weren't sealed and fuel is leaking down after shut off leaving the bowl low or dry.

 

I think Hairy Olds probably nailed it......

 

Only happens after a long rest, like overnight?
Cranks for a while, then starts?
If you can duplicate the condition reliably and catch it in the act we can easily determine if it is "dry bowl" syndrome.

This

http://s19.photobucket.com/user/Rock...ml?sort=3&o=12

was after 6 months of sitting, but I did put some fuel into the carb bowl by means of the vent tube just before starting her. This is how a carbed engine can and should work.



"I have a new GM Delco HD Gold battery, so that is not the issue. "
=======================
Battery runs the starter. Mainly. Cranking [spinning the engine over] and starting [sparking fuel/air mixture until she runs] are almost entirely independent events.

 

because sometimes guys have cars that sit for long periods and a weak battery is less than optimal for turning the engine over (obviously has zero to do with a fuel issue). To answer a question posed on the earlier thread, yes, the longer it sits, the harder to start. Except lately, where just sitting for two days I find it harder to start. Partly the reason for needing the new battery may have been due to long crank times before getting the engine to start. I have a another recently rebuilt carb done by a real pro, so I will see if that does the trick. Thx again

 

Do you pump the throttle once before starting? Is the choke engaging? Do you see fuel sprayed into the carb throat when you operate the throttle before starting it after it sits?

 

Yup, I have one on my bench after removing it and had the same problem for 2 years. 1 week would do it. Running a quick fuel 830 now. Bam she starts right now.

 

it could be the well plugs but a 70 quadrajet well plug *should* be ok (unlike the 68's that leaked often) its easy to check by pulling the carb and filling the bowl with gas and see it leaks underneith. also make sure your fuel filter isnt clogged and is not installed backwards

 

Hard to start is a common problem with the older cars. The fuel drains back to the tank and using ethanol gas doesn't help either. The ethanol lets the fuel evaporate out of the bowl and that coupled with fuel drain back makes them hard to start. My buddy who has been building carbs since the 60's says that he's talked to a lot of guys with older cars that are having the same problem. I put a restrictor in my return line and that seems to really help the hard start problem on my car.

 

Another possibility might be the accelerator pump. I had the exact same issue with a freshly rebuilt QJ - the pump cup was not ethanol resistant and had expanded and fallen off the plunger coming to rest in the bottom of the well. The only way it would start if it sat more than 30 minutes was if I'd shoot some starting fluid in it. Changed the complete pump to an ethanol resistant type and problem was solved.

 

Can you all clarify "hard start?" One of mine starts instantly when hot, turns over about twice when cold, and takes precisely 7 seconds to start if it sits more than a few days, which I presume is the fuel evaporating. My 442 I throw some fuel down the primaries. Is the vent tube the way to do it? Just fill the bowl?

 

The (other) Eric provided the tip regarding pressing the accelerator fully down prior to cranking to engage the carb choke and it really helped. If that is all I needed, I will be pleasantly surprised. Gonna let it sit for a few days to gauge if that was the crux of the problem for sure.

 

I agree for the most part with 66-3x2 442, the problem most likely lies in ethanol gas usage.
I had pretty much the same problem. Changed carbs, dist, everything except the fuel pump.
I checked the oil and it was WAY over filled. The fuel pump had failed due to not being compatible with the ethanol and was leaking right into the crankcase.
Replaced the pump, changed the oil, and all was good again. Instant fire up and no drain-back. And the oil looked nice again too, many miles afterwards.

 

Wow, you guys are all zeroing in on a fuel issue. Why? Maybe the timing just needs to be advanced a little? Maybe it is fuel? Who knows..
So just to be thorough, what is your timing set at? I set mine to factory specs as per factory service manual and I ended up cranking way more than I should have to. I advanced it a bit and now it fired up instantly. Unless you have proof that it's DEFINATELY a fuel issue don't get tunnel vision. It very well could be a fuel issue though. Check to see where your choke plate is before you try to start. The accelerator pumps are notorious for issues as well.
My suggestion is to get it started, while running advance timing by turning disty until it sounds it's best, readjust carb to fine tune it then, let it sit a day and get cold. Go out the next day and try to start it and see what it does. Report back. Boz

 

How are you making out with this?

 

Per oldcutlass directions of pumping the gas pedal once prior to cranking in order to "set the choke", I have now started my 70-442 3 out of 4 attempts without issue. I did try the same method a few days ago and it almost fired up, then would not start after turning over for 2 minutes. Today I pushed the gas pedal down, released and pushed to the floor again, let off and cranked. Car fired up on 1st attempt. I am obviously no mechanic, but I did work on cars back in the late 70's in a repair shop and took a couple of yrs of mechanic classes in high school and I never recall this method as the standard. None the less, I appreciate the feedback/tips from everyone. I hope this fix will be a long term solution to the lazy/no start issues. Also, I had mentioned that the car had not rec a fresh fuel pump as part of the rebuild. After sifting thru a stack of receipts, that was incorrect, it was replaced like 99% of the other mechanical components on the car during the restoration. Thanks again

 

If you have an owners manual, there is a description on how to start your car in differing situations. As weird as it may sound your not the first to not know the procedure. If it won't start like it did when you cranked for over 2 minutes, sometimes an extra pump of the pedal or holding the pedal to the floor will help if its flooded.