dnmfranco

exactly, Ram Rod shouldn't be considered a w machine by virtue of no W insignia wow..............


and the 66 and 67 W-30's what about them don't recall seeing them badged up with the big W so that means they're not W cars.


But yet all the a fore mentioned cars above were clearly spelled out when ordering these options as.................... w cars

Koda

This is not true (I mean the "it's all an opinion" comment.) Not to come down hard on you, but society today thinks everything is an opinion and no one is more correct than anyone else. This is not true here, there is a popular definition of the term W-machine and to what it should apply is simply an exercise in reasoning.

To answer your second point, no, the SX is not a W machine, just as a 442 is not a W machine. The 442 could and would spank a Rallye 350 in that year simply due to the 105 extra cubic inches of displacement. A 442 is not a w-machine unless it has the w-30 or I guess any of the other ones the 69 version had. Thus, if a normal 442 is not a W-machine, then the Rallye 350 is not either, if one holds to the definition of the term as high performance. Even the w-31 was faster than a normal 442, I believe (at least the 68-69 ones). If it were up to me, my metric for a w-machine would be "can it beat a normal 442 of that year?"

Eric Anderson

Touché

No badge but it was a w-31. So let me rephrase, I'll say I only consider w-31 and w-30's as w cars. Not a knock on anything else, I don't look at a rallye and say "wow look at that w-45" I say "sweet look at that rallye". A s/x or h/o is just that as well. A 442 with an oai hood isn't a w-25.
The w designation separates the w-31 from a cutlass and w-30 separates it from a 442, it defines the car for what it is. A Rallye 350 defines itself pretty well.

GEARMAN69

Not to split hairs but actually the 78-79 TA w 400 4speed (220 net hp 400) was a decent bit higher HP than the 75-76 TA (185 hp 400, 200 net hp 455 4 speed) so by the late 70's the TA had went back up on the performance after the mid 70's sag. The truth is a W30 or a W31 would have its hands full to beat a 78-79 TA 6.6 in a drag race and would have no chance in a road race without even using a a 70-74 TA with its superior HP and TQ.

TK-65

1965 442 was first to use W29 as the option code for 442 package. So its the first W Machine.

jensenracing77

lol, I knew what you meant. I didn't mean anything bad, I was just poking fun.

joe_padavano

Sorry, no. The SX was RPO Y79. The 1970 W-32 package was the 365 HP 455 (the base 442 motor) installed in an SX, only one of the avaible 455 motors that year. All 1970 W-32s were SXs, but not all SXs were W-32s.

Koda

Not sure on that reasoning. The use of a w option code did not necessarily make a w-machine, at least as far as I understand the popular definition. Also, I would think the standard 442 would be too many vehicles to satisfy the idea that these things are sort of rare.

Diego

I think he was being facetious.

joe_padavano

[QUOTE=joesw31;822987]Like W-33 and W-34?

Koda

Quite possibly. He loves his 65's though. And I don't blame him, his is very nice, and I'm partial to my 67, so it's understandable.

rcktdoc

Its just like people calling anything from the 60s and 70s a muscle car! A Rallye 350 isnt a W car!

Greg

costpenn

Maybe another way to define the parameters for inclusion would be to state "What equipment is required for a 1970 Olds A body to be considered a W car?

costpenn

Aloha Joe - and Mahalo!!

oldsmobiledave

For those who voted that a Rallye 350 is a W machine may I ask is a 1970 F-85 or Cutlass or Cutlass S painted Sebring yellow and optioned with an OAI hood a W machine? I am sure most of you will say no it is not.


So then how do the urethane coated bumpers & a few stickers & stripes transform the car into a W machine?

442Fred

Wow so many opinions here I am going to have to chime in. The brochure you refer to was printed early in the model year and therefore would not include a later release of the Rallye 350 so I disagree the car is on the order sheet as a W45. So we will never know what Oldsmobile was thinking about this car........


Secondly we are talking about option codes so if there is an option code that starts with a "W" then I guess it is a W machine, right?
I know W25, W26, W27, etc. are performance parts and by themselves do not make a "W" machine. So follow the option codes to find the answer.

Diego

I guess a Cutlass S with a 350-2 and a Dual-Gate is a W-Machine?

442Fred

Come on Diego I guess you didn't read what I wrote did you. I said those parts DO NOT make a W machine.

Diego

Yeah I read it. Yeah I missed the "not."

442Fred

I am out. You guys win!

I am sorry I got involved in this pointless discussion.

dnmfranco

That I agree w who knows what they were thinking. Maybe they just didn't think to do it who knows. But Fred lol, sorry to say since half your incredible collection doesn't have the brochure stipulating w- machines they are not. Crazy right but in the interest of fairness everyone is entitled to their opinion................

Gerald Nickels

My 70 Cutlass SX is a W-32 so I tried to join the W club and was turned down. Back in the day in 1969 they put wings and ram air on lets say 20 Cutlasses coming down the line and said paint them yellow with the bumpers. They are not W cars period.
NIKOLDS

Intragration

Being that my vote broke the current tie, I figured I should explain my rationale. While it seems that the Rallye is slightly more performance-oriented than a regular Cutlass with the same engine -- it has OAI as part of the package -- "W Machine" was used to describe an option package by the factory, such as the "W30 W Machine Package". One might affectionately refer to a car with W-options as a "W machine", but I think only cars that were described by the factory as "W Machines" can be classified as such. The factory invented the definition after all, so it's their intent that matters, if it matters at all. This isn't to take anything away from cool Oldsmobiles that fall short of the official "W Machine" definition.

firefrost gold

I agree with integration. Don't consider the Hurst olds a w car either , and that don't take anything away form its appeal . If Olds would have put the big valves in the Rallye I would argue that they that they might be. from back in that time half the test cars had headers and bigger cams and what not showing the readers that this was a easy way to add power buy it get it past the insurance company regulations and then boom slip in the cam , wrangle the headers , clean up jetting 3.90 gears ( stock on mine ) four speed, M-21 , Larger cooling option , and you have a w car that flys under the radar . But since you would have to pull the heads and do machine work to make it as high strung as the w 31. I too say no .

oldsmobiledave

So are you saying then that a 1972 HO with an X in the VIN is not a W machine?

costpenn

68 non A/C H/O. (W-45) There's one that is fun to categorize.

wr1970

I find this pole amusing because with all the comments on why it is not a w car the pole seems to be rigged. Are you guys calling all your buddys to get them to vote yes? Because the comments don't fleck yes!!!Just so you all got the jest i edit this post poll is the correct spelling because i think this poll is not correct. The no vote w car vote should be way ahead of the yes vote!! Fleck for smoke and mirrors!! When re-fleck is the correct spelling. Carry on guys!

tru-blue 442

Chuckle... Me too

firefrost gold

https://www.google.com/search?q=1972...ml%3B640%3B480



I don't see any W anything on this one . I wanted the Rallye for all the things it is . good enough for me I will say that I have looked up or investigated very little on the 72 Hurst's so I will bow to the I know nothing of the x in the vin ??

davebw31

1966-67 400 s W30 whether from Olds or Dealer installed are W-machines.


1968 Ram Rods are W-machines, although a stupid name, however stated as a W-31 option on my engineering paper work, but called out as a Ram Rod on the car. I do not think engineering/sales put much thinking in choosing a name for this option as the W-31 was on a fast track to get produced to replace the disappointing performance of the 1968-69 400 engine design in drag racing. I believe if they kept the 65-67 400 engine design it would have been a better performer.


All B-C body with a W designation are W machines.


1969 W31, W30, W-32 A body are W machines. Note: although the W-32 was in all aspects a W machine, it was basically a 442 with the Ram Air components. So I would not consider it on the performance level of a W-30, however it was considered as a W machine in that model year only.


1970 W31, W30, and B-C body with W package are W machines.


Note: The 1970-71 SX is NOT a W machine in the sense of how engineering/sales saw it. It was given the W-32 designation only to identify the engine option on the SX. There was nothing special about the engine, like a true W machine. The discontinued ram air W-32 option in 1969 meant something way different. Sales was so low it was no longer a profitable option and was a one year only option. Sales then decided to put the 4 Bbl. BBO engine as standard in 1971 and dropped the 2 Bbl. engine. In 1969 I was assigned to Engineering/Production Quality Control and attended many meetings that management wanted to start limiting options and models to cut costs. Example would be the SX 4200 series. Most SX sales in 1970 did not use the standard 2 Bbl. engine and ordered the optional 4 Bbl. engine. So sales decided to offer the 4 Bbl. engine as standard. Again to cut costs. So you 1970-71 SX W-32 engine option owners do not have a W-machine. The 1969 4400 series with the option code W-32 is the only true W-machine with that designation.


1971-72 W-30 are W machines.


Although I left Olds in April 1973, I would think a W41 FWD is a W machine based on previous thinking of engineering/sales.


As mentioned previously the W45 Rallye 350 was "an appearance package", therefore NOT a W machine. When we saw the W-45 in the "engineering showroom" in Dec. 1969, we pretty much all knew it was going to be a flop and one year only due no other color choices. I have not idea what Sales was thinking! I know they had a target price to be competitive with the base Road Runner and was known to GM corporate as the "Road Runner Fighter".


H/O cars were not considered W machines, except the two W-30 1972 H/O sun roof coupes that I know were built and will have the "X" in the VIN.




Flame away............................

joe_padavano

Considering that the term "W-machine" was a fabrication of the same marketing department that brought us the term "Rocket V8", it means about as much - that is, exactly nothing.

W-30, W-31, etc were just RPO codes, no different than C60 or JL2 (or Z28).

And for the folks who think that a Rallye is a "W-car" just because it has a W45 RPO code, I hold up the 1972 W29 442 that was available with a 350 2bbl single exhaust (with LESS HP than a 1980s VIN 9 307).

Just sayin'...

Intragration

I tend to agree that the term "W-machine" was basically marketing jargon, but it seems that some cars that were built as packages to fall specifically under this invented banner, while other cars just got a stand-alone W-code option or two. If there is an "official" W-machine, I'd argue that the package cars were it, while an individual option car, or a car that was primarily appearance optioned would not be. Personally, I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference, and I'd just as soon have a Cutlass with a built 455 than a stock W30, but some people are willing to pay a fortune for the W30 car. From this angle, it makes a big difference.

Mickeyold442

where the hell do you post threads and on forum?

oldsmobiledave

Pick the applicable forum then click new thread

Rallye469

As a Rallye owner, I've never considered my car a "W-Machine".

Thinking about it...it is a "W" car...just without the nice "W" engine.
I think that's what makes a W-Machine.

-pete

Is there any truth to the lore of it being the '70 Hurst that never was?

joe_padavano

The Rallye was one version of a proposed 1970 H/O. There's also the black 1970 Supreme W-32 version.

Koda

There's a car in the picture?

joe_padavano

The roof ornament likely would have been a popular production option. I hear repros are available.

Rallye469

I'd love to reproduce that car...
and reproduce with that girl.

-Pete

joe_padavano

Do the math - that was 45 years ago...