Product Review- Aftermarket RH MIRROR 68-72
April 6th, 2013, 11:30 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
Product Review- Aftermarket RH MIRROR 68-72
One expects lower to much lower quality from aftermarket parts. There is nothing like NOS factory parts, which is why folks are willing to pay.
Friend of a friend needs a '68 Big Car RH mirror. Friend says "RH mirror for a '68" to me. I go find one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/140472257260...84.m1439.l2649
and buy one. I expect for dirt cheap to have substandard quality but initially pretty and functional part that can be made to fit with some effort.
Seller wants to know which of the 4 types to send. Now, I had stuck in my memory that due to the shape of the door where the mirror mounts, there are AT LEAST 2 types- mainly regarding the angle that the stalk forms relative to the base, when viewed from front or rear- along the car's for-aft axis. One type mirror [68-9] has a stalk protruding at a right angle [90 degrees] from the base. The other type [70-72] has more slope to the door panel at that point, so the stalk to mirror base angle is more like 60 degrees, with the stalk leaning more upward.
Thus, if you try to put a 70-72 mirror onto a '68-9 door, the higher-tilting stalk puts the mirror head ON the window glass. Not good.
So, anyhow, the seller offers all 4 types- 68-9 vs 70-72 & LH vs RH. Just specify what you want. OK... what do I want?
NOW comes the info from the FOAF that it's NOT A CUTLASS but a Big Car.
GRRRRRRR....... AFTER I make the purchase.
OK, ask around, what fits what? I vaguely recall learning years ago that a 70-72 F85/ Cutlass/ Vista/ 442 base is the same-ish as the 68-9 big car..... right?
No. Experts on the internet say that the PN manual shows all 68-9 models [exc. Toro.] share the same PN mirror. This I verified, and so now we know that what I need is a RH 68-9 mirror.
This info is related to the seller. It took a week or so to iron out this detail, what with travel, work, and home life going on also.
"send me a '68-9 Olds [exc. Toronado] RH mirror" I says.
What shows up in the mail?
"Mirror, Outside 1970-72 Cutlass/442 Right SELECT
CTL9068
[barcode]
*CTL9068RH* "
says the box. The mirror bears the 60 degree stalk to base angle. I actually went thru the gymnastics required to measure this angle with some precision. Box's PN Label says "CTL9068RH" - Why in HELL you would put "68" into the PN of an item that DOES NOT FIT a 1968 model is beyond me?! Shtuff like that only leads to confusion, as we see. If I made up PN's things would make sense. But, I digress...
Well, let's test-fit this thing to a '68 W30 in the garage. PN manual says, and I believe it, that if it fits the F85 line, it will fit the Big Cars too. And, a W30 is just a glorified 442 which is an enhanced Cutlass which is an improved F85.
OK, let's remove these base screws. 3/32" hex I believe.
One is tight. SO TIGHT that the hex key strips the screw's hex recess.
WTH? I expected crappy parts but damn.
OK, bearing in mind that this POS is being returned and I would like to put no marks on it... I remove the screws by gripping the round round head. Sheeesh. Turns out, the screws are SO poorly made, they have begun oxidizing already- God forbid they apply a drop of GREASE at the factory ya know... for something that is expected to live in the outdoors weather... So the screws were basically rusted in place, on a NEW part that has never seen the weather outside of its box in a warehouse and shipping container from China. Grrrrrrr........
Place mirror on door to find that indeed the incorrect stalk angle precludes use on the '68-9 models [exc. Toronado perhaps]. Mirror would hit the window. ALSO, there is a pronounced concave CURVATURE to the door panel at this point, and the mirror base DOES NOT have this curvature, so at best the mounting would be iffy and leaky. FURTHERMORE the factory mirrors typically have a little tang protruding down into the hole thru which your round-round screw head must pass, which prevents the mirror from sliding over to where the screw heads could escape, unless you loosen the screws quite a ways, like 3-4 turns. This prevents the mirror from falling off to its ruin if the screws are just a little loose. The POS "OPGI" mirror does not bear this feature, of course. A minor but not insignificant detail.
Place RH POS mirror next to real factory RH mirror on other W30 in the garage. photo the differences.
Go to put POS screws back into POS mirror to find that the one feels stripped. STRIPPED?! It is brand new, and never did anything but one removal of screw from hole... well it _was_ oxidized in place a little... Closer inspection reveals there might be enough threads to hold OK, MAYBE, but the base is actually so poorly made that there is a cavity where some of the threads should be, so the first 3-4 threads are nut full, and are pretty useless, even before the oxidation ceremony.
Chrome plating on the exterior seems adequate, but it appears pretty weak on the underside of the base.
The factory mirror came with a TEMPLATE- a piece of paper to lay on the door and place the holes properly. This mirror came with no clues at all. Honestly, how tough can it be to produce a 4x20" piece of paper and include one with each mirror? That's just weak. Forces hours and hours of work onto the installer- rather that one person doing that ONE time, and then sharing that clue with all buyers by way of an included template... or at LEAST an instructional sheet. Fail.
Bad craftsmanship / Quality Control.
So, now what?
Message sent to epay seller stating that the wrong mirror was sent. I would expect them to send the correct one and pay for return shipping of the wrong one. The buyer is willing to accept a reproduction part, with all its shortcomings, so that should not be an issue once we get the right part here.
I did want others to be aware of just how poorly these items are made though.
Will update as the story develops.
Friend of a friend needs a '68 Big Car RH mirror. Friend says "RH mirror for a '68" to me. I go find one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/140472257260...84.m1439.l2649
and buy one. I expect for dirt cheap to have substandard quality but initially pretty and functional part that can be made to fit with some effort.
Seller wants to know which of the 4 types to send. Now, I had stuck in my memory that due to the shape of the door where the mirror mounts, there are AT LEAST 2 types- mainly regarding the angle that the stalk forms relative to the base, when viewed from front or rear- along the car's for-aft axis. One type mirror [68-9] has a stalk protruding at a right angle [90 degrees] from the base. The other type [70-72] has more slope to the door panel at that point, so the stalk to mirror base angle is more like 60 degrees, with the stalk leaning more upward.
Thus, if you try to put a 70-72 mirror onto a '68-9 door, the higher-tilting stalk puts the mirror head ON the window glass. Not good.
So, anyhow, the seller offers all 4 types- 68-9 vs 70-72 & LH vs RH. Just specify what you want. OK... what do I want?
NOW comes the info from the FOAF that it's NOT A CUTLASS but a Big Car.
GRRRRRRR....... AFTER I make the purchase.
OK, ask around, what fits what? I vaguely recall learning years ago that a 70-72 F85/ Cutlass/ Vista/ 442 base is the same-ish as the 68-9 big car..... right?
No. Experts on the internet say that the PN manual shows all 68-9 models [exc. Toro.] share the same PN mirror. This I verified, and so now we know that what I need is a RH 68-9 mirror.
This info is related to the seller. It took a week or so to iron out this detail, what with travel, work, and home life going on also.
"send me a '68-9 Olds [exc. Toronado] RH mirror" I says.
What shows up in the mail?
"Mirror, Outside 1970-72 Cutlass/442 Right SELECT
CTL9068
[barcode]
*CTL9068RH* "
says the box. The mirror bears the 60 degree stalk to base angle. I actually went thru the gymnastics required to measure this angle with some precision. Box's PN Label says "CTL9068RH" - Why in HELL you would put "68" into the PN of an item that DOES NOT FIT a 1968 model is beyond me?! Shtuff like that only leads to confusion, as we see. If I made up PN's things would make sense. But, I digress...
Well, let's test-fit this thing to a '68 W30 in the garage. PN manual says, and I believe it, that if it fits the F85 line, it will fit the Big Cars too. And, a W30 is just a glorified 442 which is an enhanced Cutlass which is an improved F85.
OK, let's remove these base screws. 3/32" hex I believe.
One is tight. SO TIGHT that the hex key strips the screw's hex recess.
WTH? I expected crappy parts but damn.
OK, bearing in mind that this POS is being returned and I would like to put no marks on it... I remove the screws by gripping the round round head. Sheeesh. Turns out, the screws are SO poorly made, they have begun oxidizing already- God forbid they apply a drop of GREASE at the factory ya know... for something that is expected to live in the outdoors weather... So the screws were basically rusted in place, on a NEW part that has never seen the weather outside of its box in a warehouse and shipping container from China. Grrrrrrr........
Place mirror on door to find that indeed the incorrect stalk angle precludes use on the '68-9 models [exc. Toronado perhaps]. Mirror would hit the window. ALSO, there is a pronounced concave CURVATURE to the door panel at this point, and the mirror base DOES NOT have this curvature, so at best the mounting would be iffy and leaky. FURTHERMORE the factory mirrors typically have a little tang protruding down into the hole thru which your round-round screw head must pass, which prevents the mirror from sliding over to where the screw heads could escape, unless you loosen the screws quite a ways, like 3-4 turns. This prevents the mirror from falling off to its ruin if the screws are just a little loose. The POS "OPGI" mirror does not bear this feature, of course. A minor but not insignificant detail.
Place RH POS mirror next to real factory RH mirror on other W30 in the garage. photo the differences.
Go to put POS screws back into POS mirror to find that the one feels stripped. STRIPPED?! It is brand new, and never did anything but one removal of screw from hole... well it _was_ oxidized in place a little... Closer inspection reveals there might be enough threads to hold OK, MAYBE, but the base is actually so poorly made that there is a cavity where some of the threads should be, so the first 3-4 threads are nut full, and are pretty useless, even before the oxidation ceremony.
Chrome plating on the exterior seems adequate, but it appears pretty weak on the underside of the base.
The factory mirror came with a TEMPLATE- a piece of paper to lay on the door and place the holes properly. This mirror came with no clues at all. Honestly, how tough can it be to produce a 4x20" piece of paper and include one with each mirror? That's just weak. Forces hours and hours of work onto the installer- rather that one person doing that ONE time, and then sharing that clue with all buyers by way of an included template... or at LEAST an instructional sheet. Fail.
Bad craftsmanship / Quality Control.
So, now what?
Message sent to epay seller stating that the wrong mirror was sent. I would expect them to send the correct one and pay for return shipping of the wrong one. The buyer is willing to accept a reproduction part, with all its shortcomings, so that should not be an issue once we get the right part here.
I did want others to be aware of just how poorly these items are made though.
Will update as the story develops.
April 7th, 2013, 07:23 AM
#4
Senior Moment Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,859
Show me the boneyard that has this mirror and I will be there asap. There are none around here like that. Even in the day the good stuff got stripped next to immediately. My point being, if you buy a mirror and expect a quality repro and get junk, it ruins your day to say the least.
Last edited by z11375ss; April 7th, 2013 at 07:25 AM.
April 7th, 2013, 10:46 AM
#5
72 Olds CS
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,657
You'd think there would be a market for quality aftermarket parts ? Wait I know there is people buy thorntons hoods and those fit that description by all accounts. Some after merket stuff is certainly acceptable quality as well,it's just the cheap crap (like it sounds like this mirror was ) that doesn't deserve to be bought (or sold) at any price.
I know I would rather buy something nice for more $ or buy a less than perfect used GM part rather than have an ill fitting POS barely hanging on the side of my car.....
I know I would rather buy something nice for more $ or buy a less than perfect used GM part rather than have an ill fitting POS barely hanging on the side of my car.....
April 7th, 2013, 02:28 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 433
Doesn't Fusick produce a quality mirror for these cars? It's a damn shame that companies like opgi & year one turn huge profits year after year selling boat loads of chinese crap like this. They are the walmarts of the auto restoration industry.
April 7th, 2013, 02:40 PM
#7
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
New in box
The label with confusing Stuart Pidasso Part Number
13096_Mirror_105Label_zps668e58bd.jpg
The 60 degrees base to stalk angle, with mirror head inclined upward somewhat on this RH 70-72 unit.
13096_Mirror_120STALK60degrees70-72_zpsfb5cf9f8.jpg
Cavity and 3-4 threads MIA
13096_Mirror_140BadThreads_zpsf33d1789.jpg
Other screw hole with weak threads also
13096_Mirror_143Threads_zpsa7c7ed03.jpg
Honestly, they can't put a coat of wax, a spray of oil or grease or SOMETHING on the threads when they manufacture these things? And a drilling clue...
Easy stalk angle ck with any 90 degree corner
Side by side taste test comparison
70-72 not on the door vs '68 correct RH Mirror on the door
April 7th, 2013, 03:13 PM
#8
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
SM6865R 1968-69 Right Mirror
$64.50
Should have gone there first I guess.
Now, can anyone attest that it's not the exact same thing?
April 10th, 2013, 03:41 PM
#10
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 601
that rare? Wow!
The point being if customer's send the POS back for a full refund, the seller would be stuck with unsellable inventory. Hopefully they would have their manufacture clean up their act. I am obviously being optomistic.
I too have purchased POS after market parts. I have sent many back for a refund. I would rather do without until I find a GOOD part to install. No more OPG or the like for me.
Mike
The point being if customer's send the POS back for a full refund, the seller would be stuck with unsellable inventory. Hopefully they would have their manufacture clean up their act. I am obviously being optomistic.
I too have purchased POS after market parts. I have sent many back for a refund. I would rather do without until I find a GOOD part to install. No more OPG or the like for me.
Mike
April 11th, 2013, 04:03 AM
#12
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Seneca Falls, NY
Posts: 5,258
I've tried the epoxy trick and that didn't work on the chrome either. Next I'm going to just stake the GD thing
BTW you can actually get them for about $55 each on ebay from Fusick (plus shipping of course)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-69-Cutl...ht_1113wt_1161
Last edited by allyolds68; April 11th, 2013 at 04:07 AM.
April 11th, 2013, 09:07 AM
#14
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
no reply from the seller
had to open an epay/paypal case and hope that gets their attention.
looking into NO$ unit instead.
buyer said no, but MY car could use an NOS one!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Update noon Thursday
postage for return of POS was sent
seller failed to send his ship-to address as I requested
another minor fail
says proper RH mirror "checked over really good" is on the way.
so far so good.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Th after work the correct RH mirror was here, sent other back Friday
So far so good, the current RH unit has much better threads and the bolts are not oxidized in place.
had to open an epay/paypal case and hope that gets their attention.
looking into NO$ unit instead.
buyer said no, but MY car could use an NOS one!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Update noon Thursday
postage for return of POS was sent
seller failed to send his ship-to address as I requested
another minor fail
says proper RH mirror "checked over really good" is on the way.
so far so good.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Th after work the correct RH mirror was here, sent other back Friday
So far so good, the current RH unit has much better threads and the bolts are not oxidized in place.
Last edited by Octania; April 13th, 2013 at 01:48 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
slowolds
Interior/Upholstery
2
June 14th, 2010 09:40 AM
