76 Regency

So I took my black 98 to a local show this past weekend and I need to vent a little bit.


The show was in a beautiful park not far from home and I was thrilled to be able to show my car one of very few times this year. I was parked next to a beautiful '79 Lincoln Continental Mark V with only 20K miles on it....all original and one of 4 in the owner's collection.


Long story short, somehow our cars were missed by the judges. How can anybody miss 2 cars the size of these parked right next to each other?? I track down a couple of judges and they come over to our cars. I would say they looked at the cars for maybe 2 minutes each. With a relatively small class of cars at the show, we were both expecting to win at least something. In the end, neither of us got anything.


Here's the lowdown: I was able to get the judging sheets for both of our cars. Out of a max of 105 points (100 + 5 for literature, etc) The Lincoln scored an 83 and my 98 came in at 63 points! We are talking about a completely original car and a fully restored car getting 83 and 63 points respectively! I looked over my car's sheet and every single line had a -2 points on it which placed it as a solid "good" across the board. There wasn't a single item marked as very good or excellent which is mind blowing considering the level of detailing on my car. Not only were points taken off for every item, but there was not a single comment listed on the sheet to at least explain the deduction. Of course, at this time in the show, the judges were long gone and I didn't want to blow up on somebody that had nothing to do with it so I got in my car and went home.


Anyway, I was completely blown away at how poor the judging was and needed to vent a bit. I haven't had my car at all that many judged shows yet and this is something I will likely just have to deal with as time goes on. I just don't get how somebody can accept the job of judging when they clearly don't know what they're doing or care at all.


OK, thanks for letting me vent. I feel better now

jaunty75

1. People who run these shows typically know nothing about the many different kinds of cars that might show up, and thus to expect them or the judging process they use to show any kind of logic or consistency is to leave yourself open for continual disappointment.

2. This is why, if given the choice when bringing my car to a car show, I don't enter it into judging, not even at an OCA event. I know my cars are not perfect, nor probably even "very good", and I don't need to be told it again by strangers. I didn't buy the cars for the purpose of winning awards. I just enjoy them for what they are and work on them as I go.

Tedd Thompson

Stuff happens at car shows. If you go to many you will see it happen often. This sounds like it was a small local show with uninformed judging. Normally points judging requires an explanation of points deduction or the deduction does not count but its their show and their game. I just mark those shows off my list for next year and make a point to go to shows that aren't biassed or homer shows that only the host club cars win.

The good part is that you still got to see cars that you hadn't seen before and talk to people with the same interest as you, not a total loss. The trophy would have been a dust gatherer anyway.....Tedd

costpenn

Earlier this year I took my 72 vert to a pretty good sized show. I was in a 70's car class, and there also was a 70 Road Runner in my class parked right next to me - beautiful car. Everyone - kind of unusual I thought- who came by our cars said they didn't know between our two which one was going to win BOC. The show claimed to be professionally judged. Neither one of us won anything, and the winner was a 73 C-10 short bed TRUCK that did not even have a bed floor. My Road Runner buddy and I had another beer and laughed it off.

VikingBlue

days after getting car back after long restoration and immaculate repaint I entered into a local show...much, much nicer than the other three cars in the class...the three other cars got 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Asked WTF to some others...the show was fixed. well, judges aren't actually told who to vote for but they know who the local players are, who supports the show, who's related to the mayor, etc.

I bet this sort of thing happens in most places.

ya can't let it bother you. it is what it is.

CRUZN 66

IMO don't ever build a car exclusively for the show circuit... You will, in many instances, be disappointed with the judging outcome.... Simply build it to satisfy yourself... Those people/spectators (let's exclude the judges) who have knowledge of the hobby will appreciate your efforts whether expressed or implied and that will most likely give you more satisfaction then any dust collecting trophy will..... At least IMO

76 Regency

You guys are definitely putting me at ease, thank you! I think I really need to take this for what it is and understand that it was just a local club's show and not an Oldsmobile show. Although many spectators greatly appreciated my car both for what it is and for the quality of the restoration, the judge may have had his own agenda and not cared for a full-size car or given a damn about his position at the show.


I almost should have expected this simply based on how disorganized the show was. They really didn't guide people as to where to park in this very big, open space and the classes were all messed up too. I was in a class of 70-79 production which was fine since my car is completely stock. Why a '65 Caddy was in my class makes no sense to me. This type of thing seemed to happen all over the show so either people were placed in the wrong class by their owners intentionally or they were told the wrong class by the organizers. Either way, what could have been a great show really left me disappointed.


I know what I have and these guys had no right to be scoring anybody's car. The fact that NO comments were made to back up the deductions just confirms that his judging is worthless.

Tedd Thompson

At least they had awards to offer. Last Saturday I was at a large high dollar indoor show(probably 200 + cars) and as I walked around the raffle area there were the awards to be offered for that days show, all four of them. Best of show, ladies choice, best 32,and some other classification that did not apply to 95 of the attendants.The real bad part was that they charged 7.00 bucks for anyone that came in the door even little kids four and five years old. Attendance was sparse. Scratched that one off the list for next year. Live and learn..Tedd

68_convert

Please don't take this the wrong way but remember... Anytime you ask for something to be judged don't be surprised at how it is judged. I enjoy car shows. I sleep in. Get there when I want. Talk to 20 people in the parking lot about my car. I enjoy the effort the car show participants put into their rides and then I leave and go for a cruise... And just for the record... Beautiful 98 ya got there...

Koda

The vast majority of show judging sucks. I leave my hood closed and I don't care. I suppose I could write 'no judge' on the card like I have seen some do, but I just don't expect an award, and, if I need to leave before they are given, I do so. The one car I have in car show shape hasn't won an award in years. Ten years ago, original meant something, now it just means 'needs restoration.'

76 Regency

Thank you and I totally hear what you're saying. I get that a judge may or may not see a car the same way as the owner, that's a given but it really just seemed like he didn't give a damn. To give every single item on the list the exact same mediocre score with no notes tells me he didn't really pay attention to much of anything on the car.


I guess I'm just ticked by the comparison in this judge to the last judge that went over my car at the New England Olds Club show last year. The Olds Club judge couldn't get enough of my car and spent a lot of time going over it. The guy this weekend barely looked at it for 2 minutes and I didn't even see him look at the undercarriage to see that it's a frame-off.

76 Regency

I hear ya. I think more attention needs to be given to original cars because they've been preserved through the years. They are obviously going to show SOME flaws because that's just natural.


What amazed me was just how original the Lincoln next to me was and I heard the guy that judged it say that my car was better. The Lincoln got an 83 which was still too low for such a clean, original car. Even the owner said that if they were judging originality his car would beat mine but since they were judging quality, he admitted my car had his beat and yet mine scored 20 points less (different judges on each car is definitely the reason for this).


Anyway, I'm pretty much over it and just needed to vent. It's something I'm sure I'll deal with again in the future and I'll probably laugh it off as more respectable shows and judges will do my car proper justice and these instances will fall between the cracks. I guess I'm mostly upset because my car has only started hitting the show circuit fairly recently and I can't make all that many shows with such a busy life right now. I was upset that one of the few shows ended this way and I found it insulting to me and the car but I can't take it that way.

oldcutlass

I understand your frustration and know the amount of time you spend detailing your car. With the local shows, most go just for the fun of it, an award is just a perk. I like looking at everyone elses cars and speaking with the owners and spectators about cars. I never worry about trophies or plaques. I have a closet full of them and all they do is collect dust and take up shelf space.

Take the local shows with a grain of salt and consider the entertainment value.

jaunty75

The solution to all of this is to attend only "Top XX" shows, where they just give out trophies to the top XX cars, and make sure that there are fewer than XX + 1 cars in attendance. If you don't go home with a trophy in a case like this, you know the process is fixed.

costpenn

Like others have said, I don't get lathered up about it anymore - the guys I do care about impressing are the guys here on CO who can appreciate the detail and authenticity of what I do in my restoration efforts.

What really does bother me is the recent trend for car clubs not specialized in any type/brand of car to go to shows en masse where it is participant judging with one car in each class and then all vote for each other's cars. That you just cant blame on incompetence - it is a deliberate attempt to game the system.

76 Regency

I think part of my problem is that my car is as much a family member as a car can be. I literally grew up in the car and it's been in my family over 35 years. It's better than new now and it took VERY long to get there with A LOT of blood, sweat and tears. After such a massive effort, I am extremely proud of her and I feel like she was insulted which in turn insults me. It's like hearing some fool at a show ask me "Why would you restore a car like this?" while half a dozen others are drooling over it.


I tend to take things like this personally which I know is a mistake.

oldcutlass

I know the group you speak of... I also know the lady who puts on those shows, and it ticks her off also. We had our anual 4th of July show and she only gave them a vote a peice and riled them all up because none took home a trophy.

1968_Post

I showed my previous car in several World of Wheels and Good Guys shows when we lived out west. While I never trophied in any of the GG shows, the best part of participating was the comments of the crowd. Those were the people that made my day. I never left disappointed.

As far as the local shows were concerned, I always figured the judges didn't have a clue what they were looking at, so if it won, great. if not, I enjoyed the opportunity to view cars I had never seen and talk to the owners.

Koda

I like cruise in and club shows where there is no judging.

tecar442

I enjoy going to car shows for the people I meet and the cool cars I get to see. There have been times that I have seen local cars win trophies over cars that are absolutely better in all ways. My car won BOC at an OCA National meet and that same year I had a local win the class with a hole in his convertible top and runs in his paint. I enjoyed the show and have returned, but not with my car. The word gets around when shows are judged that way. I won't enter that show again and neither will a number of my friends.

Tedd Thompson

MY philosophy. I like judged events, and I'm not afraid to put my car amongst any group of rides. I'm proud of what she is and what I made of the old girl. The memories and nostalgia it brings to other is worth the price of admission in itself. Don't need to win a trophy, like them when it happens, no biggie if it doesn't. I'm there to entertain myself and if I can a few others. It kept me out of the bar and I still got to drink a beer or two.... Perfect day.....Tedd

brown7373

I've been in your shoes lots of times. A lot of it has to do with the kind of show it is, and the kind of car you bring. If your car is restored original and you are at a show that likes big wheels, chrome engine parts and wild paint, you won't get a mention...maybe just insulted. Vice versa, if you take your street rod to a show that judges originality, you also win nothing. And as the owner of a 1970 Bonneville Convertible, my car does not get the same respect as a GTO or 442 or Hemi Road Runner. Your 98 falls into the same lack of respect class.


Personally, I like to drive my cars a lot, and I also li8ke to stay pretty much restored like originally manufactured. At an AACA (Antique Automobile Club of America) national show, cars are judged against a standard of correctness. Therefore, there are multiple 1st, 2nd and 3rd place in most classes. There is also a specific class for HPOF (Historic Preservation of Original Features) for cars that are mostly untouched, unrestored and unmodified cars. These cars, with thin paint and some worn components can't hope to compete at a show that puts a premium on Best Paint or Most Chrome. OCA has similar classes and judging. But you will meet people who hate AACA or OCA because "they are too picky".

1970cs

I have found that local shows are typically based on who you know or in other words locals for locals!

I have won a trophy in a small town over an hour away from my home I was tickled pink, my buddy was livid because this class was stock and I placed second to a 71 charger R/T.

Pat

redoldsman

I drove my 54 to a show in Louisiana a little over a week ago. This s a show called return to the 50's. I know what my car is and know it should have placed. It did not and they made 70 awards and there were about 350 cars there. There were no classes and the cars were judged by 4 random judges. There was probably some politics involved. Being from Texas probably made me an outsider. We had a blast and I will go back next year. I was a little mystified but the fun was what I went for. It was the first show I have not placed in.

costpenn

Thanks for sharing that Eric - looks like she handled it well!! What surprises me is that the club is so blatant about their strategy.

rustyroger

If you like taking your car to shows, and take pride in having it in the best shape possible, don't let the judges rain on your parade.
Think of the people who came to the show to admire the cars on display. I bet plenty looked at your car (and the Lincoln next to yours as well as the other cars) and thought "That's a fine looking car", but didn't actually tell you their thoughts.
Sometimes you will go to a show, some of the public will tell you how great your car is, and the judges will give your car an award. I bet at those particular shows someone else will be pissed because their car, upon which they will have lavished as much care and attention as you, went home empty handed.
Life isn't fair, enjoy the shows for the fine cars on display, don't get ate up because you didn't have your efforts recognised, and you will look forward to the next one without feeling the need to vent.


Roger.

76 Regency

You're absolutely right Roger. As many people that made it clear how much they liked my car, I'm sure there were others that didn't say a word or just didn't care for it even. I guess you can't please everybody, right? I would just like to think that judges would be able to see any car on a level playing field regardless of it being muscle or luxury. I've seen plenty of cars at shows that are not my cup of tea but are amazingly well restored. If I was a judge, I would keep an open mind and judge every car in my class on a level playing field. One of these days, I will try judging and I think this experience will definitely help me make a point of being as fair as possible to every car.

toymobile

I took my 68 HO to an all olds show in Orlando a few years back, The only HO other than a 87 NOT EVEN A MENTION, Local club but you would think at least a mention. Oh well first and last for that show, Had a goodtime at Speed World anyway.

76olds

I have been to several car shows with my 76. I myself just go to hang out and meet other car guys, One particular show we went to some of the guys we talked to mentioned to us that they knew who was taking the top trophies. Yeah before the judging even began!! They were rite, yeah too funny! I never go to win anything myself nor do I even care if they judge my car properly. I just like to collect the dash plaque along with my registered papers and I'm happy. No hard feelings on my part my wife and I just enjoy the day !! I hope these shows don't detour you from going out and showing off your car John. Know that you have an awesome car in the Oldsmobile world. Its first in its class here.
Cheers
Eric

76 Regency

Hey Eric, you're absolutely right!


Combined with all of the feedback I got on this post, I actually feel much better after another show I went to yesterday. This was a show called Caffeine and Carburetors in New Canaan, CT. This is a pricey town and the shows are primarily made up of exotic and sports cars, all of which are high dollar. It's open to all makes and models so I thought it would be nice to take my car for a ride and show her for a bit. I can't even begin to tell you the attention she got and how awesome the feedback was on her. Literally, as I was parking, there were already people gathering around my car and it really didn't let up the whole time I was there. People really appreciated the car itself and the restoration and that BY FAR made up for the poor experience I had at the show last week!

rustyroger

I wonder who was the pissed off guy at that show?.


Roger.

76 Regency

HA, well this show is not judged so most likely, everybody went home happy

Redog

You win at a judged car show, by knowing the judges.

I've seen this happen, even at Homecoming when Homecoming was a peer voting event.

I know my car isn't perfect and I'm fine with that. My car is driven to the show, not trailered in. My Alero has almost 149,000 miles on it, my Delta 126,000, and it shows.

I've judged the Alero show we used to have in Lansing, but then again, I know the car, it's only one model, and we took no bribes

Oldracerjones

My local shows in a small town in North Texas let the people judge by putting a voting slip in a can. The winner is the car with the most votes. For "real" judging I think I get more value from the people on this forum than at the shows. I've received great help and sharp comments from the forum but all were delivered for the right reason, helping me make my car better.

76 Regency

I was actually at a show in the spring that was based on spectator votes and my car was chosen as a winner. Unfortunately I had to leave before the awards but I was told later that I had won.

I've done very well at the NEOC shows without previously knowing the judge.

I think a big part of it is simply if the judge likes your car, regardless of actual condition, etc, when they really need to be open-minded and judge fairly based on the rules.

oldcutlass

Local car show rules vary based on who is putting on the show. Outside of National events, OCA and local regional OCA shows, if your expecting a trophy at one of these shows most will most likely be disappointed. Go to the local shows for the fun and the people, if you win something it's icing on a good day talking to

redoldsman

To me, car shows will always be about having fun. If is not fun, why do it. We are all proud of our cars and enjoy talking about them. My chest alwars gets a little puffed out when people tell me what a nice car I have. The two awards I have received that mean the most to me are the Lady's Choice Award at the NTOC Show last April in Granbury and the Mayor's Choice Award in Wylie, Texas on July 5th. You could have knocked me over on the Mayor's Choice since there were about 180 cars there that included some great street rods and even three Lamborginis (probably spelled wrong).

76 Regency

That's great and you're absolutely right all of us being proud of our cars. I mentioned above already but I was at a show this past weekend of mostly high-end spots and exotic cars with a small percentage of classics. I can't begin to tell you how great the response was to my 98! One guy was a huge fan of 70's American luxury cars and he knew quite a bit about mine. I overheard him on the phone describing my car in detail to a friend of his. My favorite comment from that show was "this is the nicest one in the country!" That was truly awesome!


I hardly had a chance to walk around the show because so many people were checking out my car and wanted to talk about it. I even moved it to a different spot to take some pictures and as soon as I got out of the car, more people came over! I was almost overwhelmed but loved every minute of it!

jag1886

There is no rhyme or reason to car show judges. You can't go to a show expecting anything or you are going to be disappointed every time. The last show I was a Caddy CoopDeVille that had a garage paint job but it had cool wheels and was on air bags and won the whole show.

Rocket Richard

Gotta say, very nice ride! Beautiful.

These big cars remind me of being a kid. I have a vivid memory from when I was 5 years old checking out our neighbour's Lincoln like the one you mentioned. From a little kid's perspective those big 70's luxury cars are freakin huge!