Yup. Exactly. This car has known lineage. That's history people. The car was owned and ordered by an Oldsmobile dealer himself. Proof of all the owners after. Still doubters. But the fake crap all over the auction blocks brings no questions? Funny world.

 

I never said it wasn’t the same color. It’s the name of the color. Taking a Chrysler name and using it for an Olds is just bs. Chrysler used those names as selling features and was well known…if anyone mentions a plum crazy car from those years, it’s a given it was a Chrysler

So it’s not plum crazy and it’s not 1 of 1. As far as authentic, it’s got nothing so far. Unless I keep missing the fully documented part people keep taking about.

documents are documents…not hearsay or someone’s recollection. I’m really surprised a car like that, with every known owner since day one and the stories from each of them, there isn’t a paper trail of real docs somewhere laying around or tons of Old pics?

 

where’s the documents.. you’re the guy who keeps saying fully documented.

 

nobody’s arguing that. Chrysler did have names for Color’s. It was in their brochures

 

Don't ruin a good story with facts. A picture is worth 1000 words. Cut them off at the pass. I hate that cliche!

 

Hey some folks must have the wallpaper as Mike says.. Looking at the pics on Garner FB site, there are many that are not on here of the car being taken apart for resto. Any conceivable doubt in my opinion is eliminated. Steve Minore who is the expert on these cars looked at the car prior to purchase and his expert opinion was its a real deal plum crazy purple factory 1970 W30. To some, nobodies opinion is worthy, nor the use of deductive reasoning along with good old car minded common sense..( did anybody take a car apart to repaint it in 1980’s?) very few as a repaint would be at best door handles removed, bumpers removed and thats it.
Paper work is important but so are the numbers stamped on vin etc along with personal stories..People are convicted every day or exonerated in this country by a jury of their peers. Often times without concrete written proof but circumstantial and common sense

 

👍
Exactly. I stated it before. I have been fried here for calling out questionable cars. Obvious fakes. This car with verifiable background now gets questioned.

Cool *** car. I love it.

 

So it’s a well known Olds guy that’s the proof now, not any GM docs?

you know, those “guys “ charge a lot of money to say it’s real right?

 

Now it’s verifiable background, not fully documented?

 

If you think this car is BS,then fine but I wouldn't let it bother me.
. I've been in this hobby for a very long time and the "guys" verifying this car are stand up guys and if that's not good enough for you,well..........

 

Remember, you can get a conviction in court with just circumstantial evidence and no proof, if there is a LOT of/enough circumstantial evidence. I feel that same logic should be applied here, too. At a certain point, there is enough evidence showing it is more likely that not, painted at the factory.

 

Pizza442, you are applying two different standards of proof; civil vs criminal. Civil law is more likely than not....criminal conviction requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt. In the instant case, even with proof beyond a reasonable doubt, you have certain members on this site who won't believe the car is real. I'm with you. The car is real. I have many photographs of the car, matching number "OW" transmission, Steve Minore certification; nothwithstanding Steve Minore charges for certification.

 

You are just a dick.

 

I guess what I was thinking was: criminal, able to convict on say, murder, via circumstantial evidence even with no body or murder weapon. They just did that here in Calif. for this kid and the college girl that they never did find the body (his father did get off on helping him-charges)
For civil, just need a simple preponderance of the evidence to prevail.
I know this is oversimplifying and not even bringing a jury into it,

 

its not bothering me. I’ve also been in it long enough to be a bit skeptical. The “guy” or “guys” who authentic these cars charge a good fee to make things happen

both the owner of the car and the “authenticator” win,, he gets a good payday and the owner gets what they want.

PM me, I’ll tell you a little story about one those guys..who tried to burn me on a parts purchase that took two years to straighten out only because I said I would go public on Olds sights to tell my story. Once I did that..magically he returned my money.

you’ll also notice these guys have a disclaimer when they authenticate a car. It’s legit “in their opinion”. So it’s only an opinion

 

to be clear,, I’ve never said it wasn’t painted that colour by GM from day one.

seems like that’s the go to though,,I don’t see anyone here arguing that. Yet that’s the rebuttal over and over.

where’s the proof it’s a W car? That it came with the W27? Or that it’s a 1 of 1?

You can keep coming back about the color as a deflection…it’s not working

 

^^^^when you have absolutely nothing^^^^^

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

I'm looking forward to seeing the car at the MCACN'S, real, not real, documented, not documented. It's a neat story about a possibly one of a kind 442.

 

Exactly.

 

You win, the Barneymobile is a clone and the guys who know and have known the car for ever are dishonest,anything to make a dollar.

 

I look at buying cars like I would selling them. If someone bought this W-30, could they then sell it as such? Would all these stand up guys still be around, be available, and be inclined to testify to the next sale?

 

it is a beautiful car and if it’s for sale will bring big money

 

The guys in question would be a outstanding yes.

 

See, the thing is I don't know these guys, and maybe the buyer won't either. This is speaking to all sales of this type as an example, not to this particular one, but rather, a question of how far the strength of testimonials go, and from whom. I know a good bit, but I am not a former Olds employee, either engineering or sales, so I wouldn't want someone going "Oh this dude say buy this car so I will" based on my testimony. I'd much rather quote widely held methods and ask the person to verify them as in "This dude on classicolds said to check this, and this, and this....that's correct, right?....oh, ok, good." etc. Plus, anyone who was a dealer was, by definition, a car salesman, and that conjures up the Danny DeVito movie role.

So, I don't know. What's the hobby's collective judgment on testimonials?

 

Fair call, I would think its like anything in life..people have reputations for integrity or lack there of. Past track records of actions that support their opinions. Its like the guy in Tampa, big Olds collector ..Joe Spagnoli I-think..He had several W30’s at auction..no paper work because his exwife burned his house down along with all the docs of proof on his cars..However those cars sold for big cash based on his reputation..now in 5 years will that still hold water when the current owner chooses to sell? I have no idea, so its a great question

 

I heard it’s a minimum of $4,000 plus expenses like flight and accommodation to have one of the these guys authenticate your car?

has anyone seen what kind of package you get after you get the thumbs up that they bless the car as legit?

 

ah, the old ex wife story 😉.

its never simple is it like “ I don’t have any docs for these cars because I just don’t “

it’s “I did have everything, but my ex burned everything”

I’ve had a few W cars and a few X’s. I still have photo copies of those cars docs. Maybe I’m just lucky? Or, I put them in a safe place..like my tool box

 

I still have a "box o' dox" including POP, owners' manual, Vintage Vehicle Services authentication and tons of receipts, among other things for a '68 Camaro SS I had nearly 20 years ago. The guy I sold it to couldn't be bothered to come back and pick it up.

 

I think it's awesome - Would love to get a pic of that next to my 2018 T/A - will definitely see if I can have a close up look next time I'm over their way.

 

That's off by a significant magnitude. Without documents, it's impossible to say with 100% certainty. The value in bringing an "expert" out to inspect the car is leveraging their archive of documents, date codes, etc. based on other inspections and research. Some of it is bullshit and marketing but there are some nice details. I view the "expert" more for the buyers that are pretty new to the Olds community versus the seasoned veteran.

For this particular car, the matching OW transmission plus the history of the car adds to its provenance. The reality is this car will be in a private collection and won't hit the open market.

I helped document this car when it was first inspected to validate the factory purple paint. There are areas of the car that had purple paint that would strongly indicate a paint job in purple prior to final assembly. Jim Stohlman helped validate the history of the car and he's one of a handful of guys in the Oldsmobile community who is well regarded when it comes to their opinion and knowledge on things like this. I'd say there's more supporting evidence that this '70 442 came from Lansing as a purple W-30 versus the lack of supporting evidence that it did not.

 

Nice. Thanks for that information. 👍

 

You didn’t say how far off that money is, Is it high or low?

i only said that because someone asked before in an olds sight if that was reasonable because that’s the quote he got.

i have an OW trans here in may garage. If I put that in any 70 442, will I now have a W30? No, because restamps and re tagged , or real OW trans do not make it legit.

 

What’s the going rate for someone to come see the car and anoint it as legit?

 

Hence, the statement that it's impossible to say with 100% certainty. Again, a numbers matching OW transmission is a strong indicator but a deceptive person could go to great efforts to fake that. As I'm sure you're aware, there are other indicators that can be observed to support or discredit the car's authenticity, too.

 

Yap yap yap. All you do is argue. You rock... 👍 My statement stands 🥖

 

it’s actually pretty easy to do. There are plenty of fake cars and fake docs floating around. I’m not saying this car is one of them.

ask George Zapora from GM Vintage Vehicle Services about the fake Canadian docs that were floating around. It’s why they had to change the paper to watermark style in the last few years .

I’ve seen OW tags for sale on eBay before. That little tag can start the ball rolling on a complete fake W car.

 

^^^^when you have nothing^^^ again.

if you owned a W car now, maybe you would feel less insecure about things like this 🤣🤣🤣

 

Really? Pretty easy to grind down a VIN, restamp a VIN perfectly to match the factory stamping, swap tags? C'mon, man. You must have some skill, however, that stuff is all table stakes. What about the OW painted stamp on the case? Are you swapping the valve body?

I see you listed a '70 W-30 for sale recently. Hear me out on this...if you have a '70 W-30 with bulletproof documentation, doesn't the idea that others are passing off W-30's with questionable / no documentation or parts actually increase the value of the documented car thus making it more lucrative to own one? It's the same reason the $300k W-30 from last year's Kissimmee auction was returned back to Mecum.

We can agree to disagree here.

 

I would love to select you as a juror in my case. No matter what evidence the government presents against my client, you'll vote to acquit, hanging the jury.

 

holy cow,, ya it’s really easy. Lots of people have been fooled by good fake parts. They are getting better at it all the time.

What about the 1 of 1 on this car? That’s not provable at all