I'm a newbie to the forum and a possible newbie to owning a classic Olds. I'm going to look at a '67 442 tomorrow which I am considering purchasing. This will be my first classic car purchase, so I'm rather nervous. The seller is an experienced classic car owner based on articles about car shows that I have read online that featured his name, and he says he's been buying and selling classic cars since he was quite young (he's 78 now). I have only seen pictures so far, so I need to see the car in person, obviously, to make sure the car is what he says it is, and to assess the condition, etc. The seller says the engine - 400cid- is original, as is the A/T tranny, which he says is a"400". I have gleaned lots of information from internet articles, but I thought I would check with forum members who are familiar with this vehicle to see if they have any special insights about a '67 442 that I would benefit from knowing. Thank you for any information that you are able to share that might help me.

 

Well a 67 442 except California builds should have a 5V or 5VY on the lower left of the Trim tag on the firewall. The engine should have an E letter stamp on the engine block just above the water pump. The heads should have a C on them located just to the left of #1 spark plug hole. Some things are reproduced of these cars which is great. The lower rear control arms should not be open but should be boxed in with metal plates and there should be a rear anti-sway bar across the rear. The headlight doors should be solid as no opening or slot where the grill bar ends. A Cutlass will have the slotted ones. This should get you close to legitimizing the 67 442.

 

Thank you! I appreciate the information. I will check on all of those things you mentioned.

 

Good luck in your pursuit. The ‘67 442 is my favorite car.

 

The Maniac's advice is solid. The V in the 5th group (ie, 5V) is the 442 trim. Y is deluxe belts. There may be additional letters there, read the thread in my signature if you want more on cowl tags in 67.

Here's some notes:
Body:
-442s are Cutlass Supremes that year. Post, Hardtop, Convertible. They will all have trim on the body line going from bumper to bumper down the side.
-442s have a louvered hood, not one with a spear down the middle.
-like said, narrow grille bar, no notch for the bigger one in the headlight trims (check the outsides, too, they get flipped over).
-There are 4 red taillights, and reverse lights by the tag, being a Cutlass Supreme. Not 2 brakes and 2 reverses below the brakes, that's a normal Cutlass.
-Being a Cutlass Supreme, it has a trunk molding that says OLDSMOBILE. Being a 442, it is painted black. The upper two tailight surrounds are also black, on a 442. All this is not black on just a Cutlass Supreme.
-The fenders and decklid say 4 4 2 in a single badge of Red, Dark Orange, Light Orange backgrounds. The dash plaque has a rocket logo with a 442 under it. Repros just say 442. They do not say Cutlass Supreme (unless it's wrong or a fake).
-Wheels can be fake wire, Super Stock I's, Dog Dish, or anything aftermarket or later production.

Chassis:
-Disc brakes are rare, and are 4 piston, fixed caliper type, which is different than later models.
-442s have a 400 E block engine with a code that says V######G on the front right head. It is not numbers matching. 67s don't match numbers. The E is behind the water pump. ######E. The E is important. If it is F, or G, or B, or 2, it's a different engine.
-442s have a 4 barrel Rochester Quadrajet. These have a round metal green disc that has the number on it. I think it's 7027157. (I remembered one, here's the rest
7027156 (w/o A.I.R.) It will probably be this one.
7027157 (A.I.R.)
7027032 (C.C.C.)
The first is normal, the second is CA cars, the third is the Climactic Combustion Control cars, it will have an air cleaner that looks like the Millennium Falcon if so.

-442s have dual exhausts.
-the TH 400 is marked OG on its tag, and is a switch pitch turbohydromatic 400. You should feel the converter switch its aggressiveness based on throttle position. It's a 3 speed. It should shift firmly, but not roughly.
That tag is about 1 inch x 2 inches riveted to the right side of the transmission near the pan, about halfway down. It will be blank, because the sticker is gone, but the numbers are still stamped across the bottom. OG ######. Look for OG.
See notes on C heads, control arms, and swaybars.

Limited slip was an option, but not mandatory with 442. You could get most options on them, including AC, power windows, power brakes, power antenna. Radio could be FM, but is probably AM. They did not come with a right mirror (for 99% of them). Some of them have a rare tach package, most have idiot lights.

The air cleaner looks like the one in my avatar, or similar, with a chimney, (unless you are a CCC or a W-30...this one will not be a W-30).

Expect "steer with a finger" power steering, good brakes that fade after multiple uses, and good, but not ungodly, power. Might get rubber in second gear at WOT shifts.

Take pictures for us to help. Get the cowl tag, vin tag, carb number, head number if you want. We can also help with condition. Unless it steals your heart, go get info tomorrow, then come back to offer later. My latest car, I viewed once, test drove and viewed again, then viewed on a lift and bought the third visit. Good luck.

 

There is passion for the '67 442 here, AND is shows. Great write-ups....

 

I'm having to drive 3 hours to see the car. I plan on checking it out to the best of my ability, and if it checks out, and it "steals my heart", I will probably go head with buying it. It will have to check all the boxes, though. I'm not wanting to make any mistakes.

 

By the way, I think the seller mentioned on the phone today that the carburetor was not original and is now an Edelbrock. Is that good or bad? Does that have any implications for the intake manifold?

 

Ok, the distance is a factor, so your plan makes sense.

The edelbrock is not bad, it bolts right up. The choke may be different. No implications for the intake manifold, but you may check to see if it is original or not. It will say who made it somewhere. Carbs are easy to swap. Depends on how original you want to do. Same performance, give or take.

 

Ok, thanks. I appreciate it.

 

I say the Edelbrock carb is a bad sign. It tells me someone didn't know what they're doing to have the quad fixed, and slapped that junk on there.

 

I have noticed that as well. Personally I am partial to the 1969 myself though.

 

What is the location of the car? If a salt belt car be extra careful, see if floors and trunk floor have been replaced. As said the Edelbrock carb would be a deviation from stock and the 67 intake has a divorced choke not compatible with the Edelbrock carb.. The turbo 400 trans is a great unit! There should be a year/date code on the trans tag.

 

Well, here's the story. I drove three hours with my buddy to see the '67 442 that I was interested in buying. My first thoughts were, "Nice paint. Not sure if it's the official color for '67, but it looks good." I went about doing my exterior inspection to make sure the right 442 parts were there. Notchless headlight bezels...check. 442 emblems in the right places...check. Louvered hood...check. Boxed rear lower control arms...check. Rear sway bar...check. Dash emblem-logo with rocket above and 442 below it...check. Rear taillights for Cutlass Supreme vs Cutlass...check. Chrome body moldings all the way down the side...check. Dual exhaust...check. Black coloring around the top taillight bezels...nope. I asked the owner about that, and he said he had just replaced them with new ones and didn't pay any attention to the black part because they were so faded on the old ones and didn't think it mattered that much. I could tell they were brand new. After checking under the car for rust using my flashlight, I thought the underside looked pretty good with no appreciable rust at all. I then pulled out my trusty paint thickness magnet tool to look for body filler. There was a significantly large area in the middle of both quarter panels where the magnet would not stick, although I will have to say that the body filler was sanded quite well as it didn't show through the paint at all like I have spotted in other cars. Then, it was on to the trunk. After removing the contents, I lifted up the trunk mat, and spotted several small rust holes perforating the trunk pan with noticeable surface rust on other areas. I looked at the left side of the trunk where the trunk pan rolls over into that well/depression at the bottom of the quarter panel, and there was significant rust there, as well. The seller had assured me on the phone the day before that there was no rust because, "I would never buy a vehicle that has rust." He's only had the car for 8 months. After feeling like I had inspected the exterior of the car and the trunk as well as I could, I moved on to the engine bay. Correct numbers of ######E on the front of the block...check. Correct V######G on the right front head...check. "C" on the left head to the left of the first spark plug...check. Rochester Quadrajet carburetor...nope. There was a fairly new Edelbrock sitting atop the intake manifold which the seller said he had replaced because, "It has an electric choke." The engine bay was quite nice looking with a fairly spotless and bronze colored engine sporting a new water pump. It had nice shiny, chromed valve covers with the usual engine information label for the 400. I wasn't able to get under the car to check on any of the tranny tags or number as there was no lift and I couldn't fit. Oh, yeah. The car appeared to be riding rather low, and I don't think it was on purpose. After finishing all of my inspections, I told the owner it was time to take it for a spin. Upon starting the car, I checked the exhaust to see if there was any smoke of any kind or color. None. Now, this is where it gets interesting. The owner had me back the car out of the garage, and upon trying to apply the brakes at the end of the driveway to check for traffic,....the car wouldn't stop (well, it did eventually), and the brake pedal was fully depressed. I mentioned this to the owner, and he responded with, "It takes a little time for the brake booster to build up pressure." ????? Ok, whatever. We proceeded down to the end of the street (this was a somewhat rural subdivision with very little traffic) where we needed to stop to turn left, and yep, no brakes. I finally got it stopped, but I probably should have turned around and put the car back in his driveway, right? No, I wanted the whole experience in this car so we kept going with a couple of more stops, and maybe a little better braking, but not enough! We finally made it to the straight-a-way where he said I could open it up, and man, was I disappointed. I know it's a heavy car, but I couldn't really feel the secondary barrels kicking in at all. Not at all like my '65 Impala, four barrel, dual exhaust car of my youth. I was scaring my buddy because the car was wandering all over the road because the steering was so loose. I didn't ride very well, either. It felt like the suspension was very tired and worn out. We finally made it back to his driveway without any mishaps. After huddling up with my buddy in my truck for a few minutes to discuss the car, I knew I had to tell the owner that his car just wasn't doing it for me and that I was gong to pass on it. He was disappointed and somewhat incredulous that I would pass up buying such a nice car for such a reasonable price. He also commented that he had never had someone check out a car that he was selling to the extent that I had. No, "Koda", it didn't "steal my heart". The 442 had a great look to it, inside and out, but it was not fun to drive in any way. By the way, it did have front disc brakes with rear drums, but maybe a full brake job is in order??? The odo has 85K plus miles on it, but there's no way of knowing whether that's original or not. Probably not. The engine felt a little worn out to me. Maybe it's the carb, I don't know, but I came home without the 442 because it had too many problems for me. But it was a nice looking car. Sorry, I didn't mean to write a book.

 

Probably a smart move to pass. Anyone who says they never buy cars with rust, and the car in question has noticeable rust holes, is probably hiding other things.

The lousy performance was probably carb related. Edelbrocks are decent carbs, but most people just bolt them on and never tune them for the application. And as someone else mentioned, they were too lazy to fix the original carb. I’m betting a decent rebuild kit for the correct carb is cheaper than buying a aftermarket universal carb.

As for the brakes, it could be something as simple as them needing to be adjusted, bleed, or just a mismatch of aftermarket parts.

As for the steering and suspension, rebuild kits are available and not very expensive. Some people like the low look, I think it looks like crap. Maybe the owner likes the low stance and didn’t see anything wrong with it, or maybe he just didn’t want to invest in fixing it.

Unless there is some wiggle room in the price, or you just aren’t interested in it, let it go. Somewhere out there is the car that steals your heart.

 

Smart move

Ya gotta kiss alot of frogs to meet a Prince

 

Sounds like flipper trash to me

 

You did your homework, I grade it an A+ Seller saying you just need to pump up the brakes is scary. Can I ask how much he wanted for this car?

 

 

He was asking $35K for the car which, if it didn't have the problems I discovered, I felt was a very reasonable price. It just dawned on me a little bit ago that I totally forgot to check the data plate while I was under the hood, so I don't know if it had the "5V", or not, but if it was a Fremont, CA car, it wouldn't have had that anyway.
Question: I know my '65 Impala of yesteryear and my grandmother's '66 Olds Cutlass didn't ride like this car back in the day. They were smooth riding, steered just fine, and had a lot of power. I drove Grandma's car part of the way when we went on a road trip back in '68 from Portland, OR to Denver, CO, and I was really impressed with the car compared to the Studebakers that our family kept inheriting from my grandfather when he was done with them. This '67 Olds 442 felt very "rattletrap", if that's word. Granted, it's a lot older now than either of the two aforementioned cars. So what would need to be done to get an older car like this one to somewhat approach the driving feel of the other cars when they were newer? Does it require a new suspension or certain new suspension components. Does the steering box, or whatever you call it, and the steering linkages and parts (I'm not up on steering parts terminology) all need replacing or just certain things? What kind of money are we talking, ballpark? After driving a '66 GTO that felt very similar, I wouldn't consider buying a classic car like either of those that felt so terrible while your driving them. Is my dream of owning a classic car unrealistic as far as roadworthiness or decent driving feel are concerned? I get that classic cars are old and don't have the technology that today's cars have and aren't going to feel the same as today's cars, but they need to be better, at least for me, if I'm going to buy one. The road feel needs to be a lot better than that GTO or this 442.

 

I owned a '67 442 from 1969 - 1972. I drove it from Illinois to Florida twice, and all over the states of Wisconsin & Illinois. I owned a 1972 442 from 1976 - 1981 I drove from California to Illinois and back several times. Both cars rode and handled extremely well. They had tight suspensions, but they drove and handled extremely well. The suspension and the body bushings give out on these things after 50 years, they aren't going to ride like they used to. I just replaced the entire suspension on my the current 1971 CS I own, and it brought it back to life, except for the body bushings which I have not changed. They really need attention, but you can only do so much.

 

By the way, I don't think the rear of the 442 was "squatting" or low to the ground because he wanted it that way. I think, maybe the rear springs were just tired. The seller is 78 years old and didn't impress me as a guy who would have lowered his car. Everything about the car was stock. I have seen other 442s that were for sale online, and the pictures of some of those cars showed them to be a bit higher above the ground with the rear of the car sitting higher than this one. Those cars looked more "athletic" if you get my meaning. Not abnormally high, but higher to the extent that you think the suspension isn't, or probably isn't, worn out.

 

Some of the "stance" can be enhanced with larger rear tires than front tires, as well. I always went ~ one size larger on the rears than the front...provided a better profile, I thought...of course, I was 16 years old and 20 years old at the time.

 

The 67 442 sat a bit low even when new and the 14 inch tires didnt help but there would be sagging a bit if the springs are original. And the trend a few years ago was to "drop" the suspension. At this point the suspension components, shocks, etc if original are worn. The 442/musclecars had a bit tighter suspension but should give a decent ride. A full size car would be smoother, quieter. I once owned a 66 Starfire, drove like a dream it did. I would forget that I was diving an old car. Keep looking lots of choices are out there.

 

Thank you to everyone who provided information about the 442 so that I could make sure it was authentic. It was very helpful, and fun, to be able to run down the list to see if it had all the correct components. I learned a lot.

 

I think you did right, based on your story. 35 is strong money for a 67 442 with rust and issues. Fremont 442s are not to be shied away from, but do need extra scrutiny. Thank you for your complete impressions of the car. I think a car which has bondo, brakes issues, suspension issues, steering issues, and power issues is to be walked away from.

 

Heck yea, the OP did the right thing. Number one rule: Do your homework and research BEFORE money is exchanged.

 

You made a smart decision, especially with the deficiencies in the car. Those brakes, engine power, steering/suspension items would have cast you precious time and MONEY.

 

https://bakersfield.craigslist.org/c...447001003.html

Is this the car?

 

Front stone shield is body color, too

 

Yes, that's the one.

 

No under hood pictures but I suspect some molestation there from what I am seeing elsewhere. Aftermarket steering wheel and AC. Curious about dash and seat cover/pads. Yes Cutlass tailights, oversized exhaust tips, glass tint very dark, aftermarket gauges, door panels cut for speakers and as said bumper filler plate should be silver not body color and it appears rocker panels are black and not body color..

 

Those kind of cars always cause upset, because one party sees "restored car" and the other party sees "incorrectly/shoddily restored car". This is assuming that the seller is acting in good faith of which most professional/semi-pro car salesmen do not.

 

x 2

 

What are you some kind of 67 Expert ? 😳😂

 

Nice one! Am a graduate of the Olds school of hard knocks...

 

Im still trying to graduate Joe 😉

 

There is definitely a lot of truth to this statement!! The “paint dab and chalk mark” enthusiast sees any car less than 100% stock as a “incorrectly/shoddily restored” basket case. Then you have the buyer look for a nice cruiser or “day 2” car just to enjoy. That kind of buyer has to wade his way thru 50 plus years of sloppy or questionable repairs, or pay a premium for a solid car, and be lucky if the modifications fit their personal tastes.