So apparently the European Union has mandated that new air conditioners not use the current R-134a, but rather use this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HFO-1234yf

And GM has said they are going to have all their new cars use this by 2018. Now here's the catch, this type of refrigerant has a far lower autoignition temperature than R-134a, and Mercedes did some tests which proves that if it gets onto a hot engine it will often burst into flames.

Last week my AC compressor blew its seal and started leaking refrigerant, resulting in a scary bit of smoke coming from under the hood. Turning off the AC solved the smoke, but I can't help but wonder, if this used that new refrigerant, things likely would have ended much worse.

So we have another reason to buy classic, your life could well depend on it.

 

Interesting. I read the article and it appears to be older (referenced installing in 2013 vehicles). The flamability of the product testing by Mercedes didn't go into details about how the spray was atomized onto a hot manifold so I really don't know how to react to that. The WP article does go on to state that

If it's an unsafe product, why would automakers be building plants in China and USA to produce it for general distribution to the masses?? It would need to pass federal safety legislation in North America before it would be allowed into the production stream, right? I'd trust the SAE endorsement on this one.

Annnnd, after it's all said and done? Still no reason in the world not to go out and buy/own a classic!

 

Heck, there're some guys running around with propane in their A/C systems, so, as they say, there's a seat for every butt.

- Eric

 

Really? I didn't know that propane was compatible with AC systems. I know it exists at a liquid at 270 times normal atmosphere and is explosive as heck when it vaporizes. I can tell ya one thing my friend. Even if you had the coolest rocket in the world, I wouldn't ride with you if you ran a propane powered AC system. Call is 'self preservation'.

 

Yeah, it's one of those things: Propane is actually an excellent refrigerant, with characteristics very similar to R12.
Because of this, and its low price, some people (often in the mistaken belief that R12 is unavailable) will charge up their A/C with propane. It works great, so long as an errant Hyundai doesn't come around the corner, or the blow-off valve doesn't release...

- Eric

 

Hey! I have a Hyundai and it's never been errant. I might have been, but it never has been.

Yup them propane cars blow up real good!

 

Of course, that was one fueled by propane, so it had a bit more on board than one with propane refrigerant.

- Eric

 

All the same 2-3 lbs of propane is more than enough to wreck a car. But then so is 10 gallons of gas.
A little gem I picked up years ago, "Electricity is perfectly safe as long as you remember it is dangerous". Substitute propane, gasoline, even nitro-glycerine for electricity and it still works.
It's stuff in the wrong hands that's the danger, from the nuclear button to a pen.


Roger.

 

It's not in the media or published anywhere but the r134a is worse for the enviroment than r12.Thanks epa

 

So, if it's not in the media or published anywhere, where did you learn of this information?

 

Actually the article does state how it would end up on the manifold, they stated that in 2/3 of simulated head on collisions it burst into flames. That's a problem.


Because of political reasons. It's an EU mandate and GM is likely doing so for political reasons too. Thing is, yes I'm sure it's safe under "normal" conditions, but that's not counting an accident that destroys the AC system. Seeing as to how most accidents tend to involve one or more cars going forward, this is a problem.

Agreed.

 

Which proves that just because you can do something doesn't mean it's a good idea.


That is true, but the difference is necessary risk. In most cases there aren't any good alternatives to that 10 gallons of gasoline. There are good alternatives to HFO-1234yf.

 

Someone filling an A/C system with propane is my idea of an example of stuff in the wrong hands.


Roger.

 

The AC guys don't sell it as Propane, the use a bunch of numbers referring to it as Hydrocarbon based.
The pic is the result of Hydrocarbon based gas, a fuel fire in the engine bay heated the AC compressor till the relief valve blew.
The gas jetted out of the compressor under the air filter and under the front fender setting the underside ablaze.
The fuel fire was quickly extinguished but the gas kept reigniting.

 

Most refrigerants are flammable.