nelly101

I'm a new cutlass owner ( 2 weeks now ), and would like some help figuring out my cowl tag, and what everything means.


Style 33867 2-6-24
Body NO 337592
Paint W ( pretty sure it means silver mist )
Trim 980
D55 M33 TOP - 2


I inherited the car from my brother in law and all the info I have is a 66 Cutlass Convertible. But I see some discrepancies when I'm looking at other 66 Cutlass Convertibles. Mine has the Cutlass in front of the doors, and all the others I've seen have it behind the doors in front of the rear wheels. Any thoughts?


Thanks in advance.


Neil

ddd777

Deciphering Your 1967 Oldsmobile Cowl Tag
http://www.oldsmobility.com/oldsmo/v....php?f=12&t=18

GM Body Tag Decoding
http://enthusiast.yearone.com/vehicl...-tag-decoding/

nelly101

ddd777,

Thanks for the links, but I'm still not getting it. My tag doesn't look like the ones in the samples. What does my tag tell you? Is it actually a 1967? and not a 1966 ?


Neil

tmaleck

Can take a picture of the tag and post it? Also a few pics of the grill and body side might help.
Tim

Allan R

Neil,
Here's what the information on your cowl tag means:
3 - Oldsmobile
38 - Model: Cutlass Supreme with v8
67 - Body Style: Convertible
Body 337592 : number assigned by Fisher when being constructed at FBW
Paint W 2: Silver Mist lower body, black convertible top
TRIM 980: Black interior
D55: Sports console
M33: Jetaway 2 speed transmission (super turbine)

There is other information on your cowl tag that is missing in your description. eg: Production plant, date build code, and any column numbers. Can you post a picture of the cowl tag?

nelly101

Here are a couple of pictures to help.
06-09-2014005_zps1befbd19.jpg


06-09-2014002_zpsa6c22a8f.jpg


IMG_0309_zps41d715c4.jpg



05-19-2014030_zps983e5caa.jpg


05-19-2014027_zps191d10c6.jpg






photo_zpsb59b8e10.jpg

nelly101

Allan, is there another tag some where? And which #'s in the tag I posted mean the year?


Neil

Allan R

The only other tag you should have on your car is the VIN plate and that should be on the lower A pillar of the car on the drivers side. To be honest with you, I've never seen a cowl tag like that - ever - for a GM car. There's no General Motors Corporation or Body by Fisher stamping, or production plant listed. I'm questioning the authenticity of the tag. Back in those days the options were listed by letters under a 5 code column system. This just doesn't look right.

This is a cowl tag from a 67 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme (Turnpike Cruiser), and the only difference for 66 would be ST 66 instead of ST 67



I also noticed the dash has been modified with some toggles to the left of the radio. What are they for? Someone has played with this car. The wheels and shifter are definitely not original. The steering wheel also raises a question.

Just thought of something. With the key in the Start position, gently see if it will pull straight out. Some of the early cars did that so you could start the car and still have your keys with you. Kind of dumb IMO but I remember that on some of the older cars.

nelly101

So my 66 cutlass is actually a 67 cutlass supreme convertible ? Lol.

I'm not surprised. My sister couldn't find any of the cars info when I picked it up. And everyone always told us it was a 66.

I'll have to go back to the registry office and have it changed. Is there some where I can run the vin# to see what It says?

Neil

sammy

Sure looks like a 66 to me.....

nelly101

so confusing. I'll have a look under the hood tomorrow and see if I can find any other info, or tags. I appreciate all the info so far..


Neil

Allan R

No, that's not what I said. Please read the post again. I was simply showing you what a cowl tag from 67 looks like, and stated that the only major differences would be for 66 instead of 67. The cowl tag I posted was clearly stated as belonging to a 67 Turnpike Cruiser. It was a Cutlass Supreme post coupe, not to be confused with a vert. Do NOT go to the DMV and try to change your registration. Verify your information first and see if it's correct. What I was also trying to show you is how typical cowl tags look, in comparison to the one you have on your car. That's why I said it just doesn't look right.

The VIN plate for your car will look similar to this example. Again, it's an example, not specific to your vehicle. Look on the Drivers A pillar. It should be riveted there (vertically, not horizontally)




Yes, I'm sure it is Ted. I was simply using that 67 tag as example since the one that was originally posted doesn't even look like a GM tag.

1969w3155

I noticed Saskatchewan plates, would this being a Canadian car change anything?

sammy

I was thinking the same Allan....that the would rush out and change his registration...

nelly101

Ok, much easier to read the posts from a computer rather then my phone yesterday. That's where I got confused Allan. My apologies. I couldn't see the tag you posted so I thought you were referring to mine still. sorry about that. My bad.


I see what you mean now about the tags being different. Wonder if it's because it being a Canadian car. Like the other gentleman suggested? I'll still check for other markings when I get home tonight. The brother in law I inherited this from hadn't had it registered since before 1990, so not a lot to go on. My sister tells me there is folder on it some where, so we'll see if I ever get to see what's in it.


Again sorry for the misunderstanding. I do appreciate the help and suggestions.


Neil

Oldsmaniac

The car has most everything correct for a 66 so I think its a 66, cowl tag looks very non correct.

joe_padavano

Canadian-built cars definitely had different cowl tags. Post the VIN, as that will tell you the assembly plant. If the seventh character of the VIN is the number "1", it was built in the Oshawa, Ontario plant.

nelly101

vin# 633867008350

joe_padavano

Well, all I can say is to look again.

A 1966 Oldsmobile VIN will be 13 characters and will start with the number "3" for Oldsmobile division. For a 1966 convertible, it should take the form of:

3 38 67 6 M xxxxxx

where:

3 = Oldsmobile division
38 = Model Line (38 would designate "F-85 Cutlass" for the 1966 model year)
67 = Body Style (67 would designate a convertible)
6 = Model Year (6 designates 1966)
M = Assembly Plant (M is Lansing, E is Linden, NJ, G is Framingham, MA, Z is Fremont, CA, and 1 is Oshawa, Ontario.
xxxxxx = six digit sequential build number

Allan R

Having Saskatchewan plates does not make it an Oshawa car. Oshawa cowl tags do not look like the one nelly101 posted. The VIN is not Oshawa.

The identity mystery deepens.

joe_padavano

The VIN as posted is not Oldsmobile.

Koda

That tag looks like it has some Fremont codes, but it's unlike anything I have ever seen. Perhaps it's a repro'ed tag when the car was restored based off the original tag or random numbers.

1969w3155

Could this have been some type of salvage car?

Allan R

When the real VIN comes in we'll have something better to go on.
Joe, yes you're right. I was just commenting that the vin was wrong for Oshawa as posted. Sorry, using this IPad is awkward.

jaunty75

Maybe the car isn't an Oldsmobile.

It may look like an Oldsmobile, but metal can be bent into any shape. With that hinky body cowl tag and equally hinky VIN, the car could be anything!

Allan R

Yeah, it could be a cheeto too, but it isn't. The body is Oldsmobile, the front clip has too many parts that aren't interchangeable with 67 to suggest it's anything but a 66 Cutlass. Problem is the VIN and cowl tags aren't helping this issue for now.

Dan, I don't know about the salvage car thing. You may be onto something, but it wouldn't explain the (bogus?) cowl tag. An Oshawa Oldsmobile cowl tag (Canadian built car) has unique markings for this era and may look similar to this: I have one from a 68 Cutlass I saw in person a few years back; I'll try to find that image.



I did find some information about Canadian Built CHEVELLE's and their trim tags look suspicously similar to the one the OP has for his car


Also found this VIN (obviously NOT Oldsmobile) that shows 'Canadian Built'
I have no idea what division 6 is and/or why there are only 12 digits.

joe_padavano

I had never seen a cowl tag like that either, so I did a little web surfing. I found this cowl tag from a 1964 Chevy, built in Canada and currently in Australia.

CowlTag2.jpg
Here's the VIN tag from that car. In this case, the VIN starts with "4", not "1" (for Chevy division) but be aware that 1964-earlier VINs were very different from 1965-71 VINs. The interesting thing is that this Canadian-built VIN starts with a "4" for the model year. The O.P.'s VIN starts with a "6", and it's a 1966 car. Hmmm.

vin002.jpg

jaunty75

But the important thing is that this is consistent with what the OP posted. 12-digit VIN beginning with a 6. I wonder if his VIN tag says "G.M. CANADA." What's the "D.D." stand for?

joe_padavano

OK, more research. Here's a cowl tag from a 1966 Chevelle built in Oshawa. Look familiar?



Here's a description from a Chevelle website:

joe_padavano

Yes, exactly my point. And if it says "G.M. CANADA", it doesn't really need an assembly plant code.

joe_padavano

You beat me by seven minutes...

jaunty75

From what I've found online, decoding his Canadian VIN

633867008350

6 = 1966 model year
338 = series (Cutlass V-8)
67 = body style (convertible)
008350 = production sequence number

That seems like a very low production number. This car must have been built very early in the '66 model year.

joe_padavano

Except that the "2-6-24" on the cowl tag means that production on this car started during second shift on June 24, 1966, so it was very late in the 66 model year. I don't know how many Oldsmobiles were built at Oshawa in 1966, but 8,350 might not be that far out of line. Keep in mind that this plant built cars from multiple GM divisions, not just Olds.

jaunty75

Makes sense. Thank you.

Allan R

Not sure what D D stands for (ha- Daily Driver??? Nope) There has to be a significance though because the VIN tag Joe posted shows G.M. of Canada, whereas the one I posted shows GM Canada D.D. I'm betting the last D stands for 'Division'. The first one - Documentation??? Possibly a transitory era of VIN stampings??

We were thinking alike here, but I didn't post that, so 12 digits instead of 13 may likely be correct. Logical, but likely not DMV friendly when they're looking for at least 13 digits. Still not understanding why GM had differences in VIN coding simply due to plants? All other Olds cowl tags and VIN plates I've seen related to Oshawa have the plant codes included. I know the 68/68 Oldsmobiles produced at Oshawa had the plant code on the cowl tag, and 1 in the VIN.

We were thinking along the same lines. I also was web searching and found the same kind of evidence you did. I'd love to know the whole story on this. IF this is truly a Canadian built car? The OP could likely still get documentation for it from George Zapora at the GM Historical Archives.

Agreed. I don't think Oshawa produced that many of these cars; the bulk were produced in the US. (Similar to comparing Arlington or Freemont A body production in the early 70's to Lansing) I did look up 66 production numbers and counting just the v8 Cutli in HT, Post, and vert the total is 128,434. Of this number only 12,154 were convertibles. Total Oldsmobile production at all factories for 1966 is listed as: 586756, which includes 552 cars that were exported with left hand drive.

What I'm having a hard time with is why Chev would have a cowl tag that didn't have a BUILT IN CANADA and General Motors Corporation on it. It doesn't follow a consistent pattern IMO.

The 6 at the front of the VIN makes sense - much like other early post war cars. It does however hinge on the VIN tag having "G.M. of Canada" on it, so a pic of that VIN tag would be very helpful.

nelly101

Here's a picture of my vin from the drivers side door.


01_zps908c7fbd.jpg

Koda

Well, that nails it. Your car likes Molson, cold weather, blondes, and has a predisposition to end questions with "eh".

Allan R

That also means GM Canada will have your car documented in their historical archives. That's something not available for US cars.

I'm still not convinced that is an original cowl tag though.

Allan R

Good day you hoser! And what's wrong with any of that, eh?

joe_padavano

Why do you say that? It's nearly identical to documented tags from 1966 Chevelles produced at the same plant and has the same format as documented Oshawa cowl tags used from at least 1964-67 (and likely earlier), as found on A-bodies, Novas, and Impalas built at that plant. It has all the correct info for a 1966 Cutlass convertible. It was an education for me, but I think the evidence is pretty conclusive.

I do know that by the 1968 model year, Oshawa cars changed over to the US-spec 13 character VIN and the more familiar cowl tag format with the MADE IN CANADA stamping on it. My first 442 was a 1968 built at Oshawa and had the MADE IN CANADA stamped cowl tag and the 13 character VIN with a "1" in the assembly plant location (and a Chevy 12 bolt axle).