Mascar Classics

Joe,


I think yourletter was very well written and I liked how you started with how much Oldsfans like seeing articles written about our cars. I also like the fact that youvery professionally pointed out the mistake and that you explained why. I likeMCR because it’s great to get to see all the different cars out there, I dothink that mistakes are made at times and I feel that you letter will be well received.Hopefully they will publish it in the magazine.


Scott

Run to Rund

If they don't publish a letter from Joe P. then we might as well give up on seeing any commitment from them to accuracy and honesty. Joe's reputation is extremely impressive and his honesty is unassailable. It is too bad they publish the error first, and then maybe put in a small correction at the bottom of p. 37 after everyone has been misled.

Diego

Tweed, I think you're placing too much pressure upon the editor. When it comes down to it, if there's space available for the letter, it most certainly will be trimmed down. And if there's no room, that doesn't mean the magazine lacks commitment but rather it is a logistical issue.

That being said, I think the magazine does a good job of correcting mistakes . . . but only when people point them out - sulking on the Internet doesn't do anyone any service, so kudos to Joe.

BangScreech4-4-2

Nice letter. It'll be interesting to see what kind of a response it gets -- my hunch is that it'll be ignored completely or, being unaware of Joe's reputation, they'll dismiss him as somebody who sends E-mails to the Editor while wearing a tinfoil hat.

Diego

Why is that your hunch when evidence is to the contrary?

BangScreech4-4-2

The evidence so far suggests sloppy editorial policy, no fact-checking and a general lack of regard for the truth. MCR editorial staff may find being called out in such a way embarrassing and wish to sweep it under the carpet rather than own up to their incompetence.

Diego

But if you have read every issue over the past year, you'd see they have printed several letters to the editor involving corrections. In fact, I believe the most recent issue's editorial is not from the editor but from a guest correcting the issue of pilot cars.

What you're failing to realize is that editors play that role not because they're automotive experts, but because they know how to put a magazine together. Your assumption that there is a sloppy editorial policy and fact-checking, plus a disregard for the truth, is unfair.

BangScreech4-4-2

If they're more concerned with meeting a deadline and selling ad space than getting their stories right, then I think I've made a reasonable assumption. If they can't afford to get an intern to spend ten minutes checking a story out on Google, what does that tell us about their editorial integrity?

Diego

Yet that's not how it works.

This is a car magazine, not a medical journal. Take it from someone who's gotten close to the operation - you're making grand assumptions on how it all comes together.

BangScreech4-4-2

You're talking about how things work -- I know something about that and I defer to your experience. I'm talking about how things SHOULD work and could easily be made to work if anybody gave a big rat's ***.

Ryan 1969 Chevelle SS396

My experience with MCR was 100% positive, Jerry Heasley and Drew Hardin were extremely nice to work with, and very much dug for the correct facts, dates, etc.


I don't know if I am allowed to share this or not but I was allowed to go through the article in print ahead of time to ensure the wording reflected reality, in a few cases I edited it so it better reflected how Al had preserved the car. How a sentence is put together is very important and in a couple instances it originally read like he didn't care for the car perfectly, so I adjusted it to ensure everybody knows he did very much care for the car while in hiatus)


MCR and HMM are my favorite magazines, please don't bash my Saturday morning, drinking a cup of Tim Horton's coffee magazine:-(


I read every letter to the editor and note all corrections to the previous magazines.


Ryan

TK-65

The magazines are not experts, far from it. Being Oldsmobile enthusiasts we will always know more about our cars and Oldsmobiles than the feature writers. So when the magazines do their annual Oldsmobile or Buick feature they better get it right. And to do that they have to go to the source. MCR did this and still got it wrong. Whether it was on their end or the experts end, they screwed up.

It's not bashing when its warranted. Olds gets so few features that the facts have to be right when presented. HMM ignores 64-67 442s. When they finally did a buyers guide on 65s it was so inaccurate it wasn't worth printing. They printed my half page correction email a few issues later.

BTW the buyers guide for 66-67 442s had glaring inaccuracies too.

When magazines screw up they need to be notified.

66-3X2 442

That's not Tweed,that's the Good Doctor Joe Donnelly,my Dad.

BangScreech4-4-2

This.


These magazines are presented for sale to enthusiasts within a specialty area of the market. If the publishers and editors want to survive, they should make every attempt to get things right, and welcome criticism when they don't. And not getting things right should be a very rare occurrence.


I don't read MCR any more because of nonsense like this -- I wonder how many others (besides Joe) have given up on them as well?

Diego

Now we're in agreement. But I do believe there are people who give a rat's ***.

Trust me - the book I've been working on is going to have mistakes or someone is going to be mad at me. There are a lot of things within my control (i.e. project management) and outside of my control (constraints by the editor and/or publisher).

A big for thinking Run to Rund was Tweed.

I do think Hemmings could do a better job than MCR.

TK-65

HMMs features are way more in depth. Photos are better etc. However, they seem to favor cars from New England and Jeff Koch country. I don't care for the new tech section. I can find that on the web, if I care to.

MCR could be way better than it currently is. I get the feeling it's on life support. It went away once before, and that was when print was still king.

rocketraider

Ya reckon!? Based in VT with a limited travel budget, I guess that's why they have so many New England cars.


Sometimes Koch gets it right, other times not so much. Even though Oldsmobiles are my strongest suit, I pick up on a lot of inaccuracies on other marques too.

TK-65

MCR has regional guys so they can cover the entire country. A nationally distributed magazine should cover more than two areas of the country.

Diego

Aren't the cars more important than where they're from?

TK-65

Terry McGean told me thru email that they had no plans to run a feature on a 65 442 because they cant find one. They still havent and the magazine has been published for almost 13 years.

Diego

So what you should do is tell him you'll bring your car to Stanton in Sept and allow him to photograph it if he deems it worthy. You win on two levels: the magazine will be able to feature a car that they have found difficult to locate, and you'll have your car in a magazine.

kjr442

I am sure we will see this article used on Ebay to sell a clone in the near future.

Run to Rund

MCR has a short memory. They published 6 pages plus a cover photo on TK-65's car 5 years ago.

Diego

MCR and Hemmings Muscle Machines are two different magazines. Terry McGean works for the latter.

BangScreech4-4-2

I understood everything you said except for this part, which I found a little puzzling.

Other than that, you're coming in 5 X 5 and I hope to be able to read your book in the near future. Best of luck with it, and let me know if you need a proofreader!

Diego

I had confused the Run to Rund car with the White Power car, which is owned by Tweed.

If you come to LA I can give you a preview of the book.

BangScreech4-4-2

Hmm ... we drive past your house a few times a year. Might be able to catch you sometime in the spring.

Run to Rund

Assuming Tweed comes to Kingsport for the OCA Nationals again this year, you can watch us at the strip.

Reteng

There really was a 1971 W31 but not aproduction one. It was a converted 1970 engineering test car. Not sure which of the sponsored teams had them, but they were already getting ready for the 1971 season. This was before the GM edict on compression ratios killed the program and ended the legend. I believe that was in March, 1970.

According to Casey Marks, his uncle Jack had one of the engines in his "stash" years later. He drove numerous factory sponsored ( on the QT through varios dealers in the Flint area) and Rich Powers was his "wrench".

Lots of strange stuff that never made production.

joe_padavano

That's not the point. The magazine was talking about production vehicles, and the 1971 W-31 reference was specifically about someone's personal production car. Of course there were lots of pre-production and experimental parts and cars. I own several factory experimental intake manifolds that never made it to production (note the photo to the left of this post). There were aluminum 455s and 350s built for the CanAm program. There was a TBI intake made for the 307s. The magazine was talking about production vehicles.

BangScreech4-4-2

But welcome to CO anyway!

Hairy Olds

Welcome Dave! Nice to have you as a reference.

Koda

Oh man, Dave's here! More knowledge for the brain trust!

rocketraider

Would this be one Dave Heilala?


If so, the Oldsmobile Brain Trust expandeth!

83hurstguy

Hi Dave!

jstrits

New England cars? How many cars in AZ are left to be covered? Open up one issue that doesn't have an AZ car. They have a photographer down there and that means every article seems to be a shoe in for those guys living there.

442Fred

I guess you guys could move to Arizona so that Jeff could shoot your cars too... I have worked with HMM and Jeff on several cars and they do try hard to get the facts straight. Just my 2 cents

Hairy Olds

Any land left in the hood by you Fred.

442Fred

Yep 1.7 acres right next door just not for sale..... Yet

Stefano

I like Muscle Car Review and have been a subscriber forever. I know first hand that the guys & gals behind the scenes do care about their work.

I'm not happy to read any article with misinformation, but unfortunately since we are all human (most of us, I believe), mistakes will happen.

In my opinion the articles and the accuracy of the information has generally improved over time and not just for MCR, but for most Magazines.

It is good to see people with correct and accurate info take the time to notify the appropriate parties in a professional and positive manor.