Just joined guys/gals. Have been looking for a Cutlass (preferably a 442) and today found one (I think). Got some codes and vin and hopefully someone can tell me if this is an actual 442.
vin:344879m147238
ST 69 33687 LAN 153057 BDY
TR 930 6969 PNT
10B

I appreciate any and all help.

Jim in Missouri.

 

looks like a 442, any pics?

 

It's a real 4-4-2 as indicated by the VIN. Lansing, in the '68 and '69 model years, used the "Cutlass V-8" code (36) on their trim tags which sometimes seems to lead to some confusion, but the VIN tells the real story, and the VIN you describe is a real 4-4-2 VIN. My '68 4-4-2 from Lansing is the same way.

The trim tag you show says this 4-4-2 is a holiday coupe, assembled in Lansing MI, came originally with a black interior and bucket seats, was painted the color "platinum" bottom to top, and was built in the second week of October 1968.

Randy C.

 

344 = Olds 442
87 = Holiday Coupe
9 = 1969
M= Lansing Mi Built
147238 is its consecutive production number off the Lansing line.

The fisher cowl tag decodes as follows:
ST 69 is 1969
33687 is Cutlass body holiday coupe. Its a fact the Fisher tag will not reflect 344 or 442 status as Fisher didn't care.
LAN is Lansing MI.
153057 is the body build # at Fisher
TR 930 is the interior trim Black bucket seat interior
6969 is the paint colors upper and lower Silver top & Bottom
10B is the build date of the body second week in October for the 69 model year.

 

Welcome to classic olds, vin number you posted is 442, should have black grills, rocket emblem on door panels and hopefully the original 400 engine. Here's is a link;http://www.442.com/oldsfaq/of442.htm#442 1969

 

As noted by others, the use of the 336xx cowl tag on 1968-69 442 is well documented. This is explained in both the Fisher Body Manual for those years and in the front matter from the parts book. Nothing to be concerned about. The VIN is what matters.

 

Next thing you want to do is check that the powertrain is correct.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...s-engines.html

Read the first post in that thread. You are looking for a somewhat kinda bronze looking Oldsmobile Rocket V8 that answers to the name "400 cubic in G block." The G will be in that above the water pump location seen in that thread. That G block 400 originally came with C heads on it, and that thread shows where to find the big cast letter on the bottom left side of the top of each head.

Next, confirm that the vin, shown in that thread, matches the car.

The transmission should also have a vin stamp, which, on an automatic is above the oil pan on the drivers side. I don't know where they put manuals' vins, if you have one, nor do I remember what the 442 th400 tag on the passenger side should say. Others can help there.

 

Platinum is an awesome color, good luck with your purchase

 

Thanks for all the replies. It tells me a lot about this car. Some more info on it: Motor # is 396026 and the guy said it originally came with a 3 speed manual trans. It still has the 3 speed console in it but the trans was switched to a 4 speed. I haven't bought the car yet so can't get any numbers off it. Car has air but the compressor is un-hooked so it is probably no good and will need replaced. It has been painted red but has a brand new black leather interior and headliner. Very nice paint job and condition but some over spray. No air cleaner. No chrome drip rail moldings but all the other moldings are there. No rocket logos on the door panels as Chris mentioned. I'll attempt to load a few pics.

Also, his asking price is $16000. Is this in the ballpark?

Jim

 

You need to confirm numbers matching before you buy. If the seller won't provide, or won't let you check, then he's hiding something.


If it's numbers matching, then the price is on the high end of reasonable. Since the transmission is not original, it's not numbers matching. Does he still have the original transmission to go with the sale? If it's the original engine, I'd offer 14. Non-original engine, I'd offer 12 and walk away.


The stainless steel roof trim moldings are on the car, but they are painted.

 

This engine number, 39M147238, should be on the engine pad behind the lower power steering pump bracket to be the block the car was born with or numbers matching to the car. 396026 is the correct casting number for a G block 400 which is correct for a 69 442. If this car is super clean, I mean desert or California zero rot rust clean with dust on the frame then its worth the asking price IMO(in my geographical location anyway). But can't hurt to barter.

Of course, there are plenty of other numbers that need to match IMO for it to be considered a complete numbers matching car...rear end, carb, dist, heads, intake, wheels...et al. Wrong colors, wrong interior, wrong wheels can all be corrected but at a price. Another bargaining chip for you. If all and I mean ALL of the original parts come with the car that's good, but highly unlikely.

This thread shows the location of the engine pad number location...Its a current thread from yesterday.

classicoldsmobile.com/forums/general-discussion/121358-vin-motor-number-help-please.html

 

I'd agree on the price range but not with how big a deal it is to get the original three speed. Not desirable in 1969, not desirable now. Four speed is a worthy upgrade. From the pics paint job looks good but not great. Note 442 emblems on the drivers side fender but not the passenger side, and the previously mentioned drip rails painted over. Signs of a rush job. Get the car up in the air and look for rust.

 

I think you're right. He may be able to argue a grand off though for the non-orig transmission, even though it is an upgrade to go to 4 speed.

 

Actually the ss drip rail moldings are not there. The drip rail itself was painted and the moldings that attach to it are missing. All the rest of the moldings are with the car. The missing 442 emblem is in the trunk to be put on..Paint is needing to be lightly sanded so as not to go thru the clear coat and then buffed. Lots of pieces are in the trunk that were not put back on after painting. With taking all these parts off to paint tells me (and the paint job itself) that care was taken with the painting.. Just needs cleaned up now.

Jim

 

I always thought the drip rail moldings just snap over the drip rails with no clips

 

Correct. Friction fit. All 1969 442 coupes had them, so they were removed when the car was painted. The 3 spd Dearborn (don't call it a Ford!) trans was the base equipment in the 442 that year. Both the AT and four speed were options. The 3 spd came with a Hurst shifter as standard equipment. The console was optional.

 

The car is well worth the price of $16k, but no harm in trying to negotiate. I would not drag my feet though. Good luck

 

Look at Mr. Moneybags.

 

i have a 3 spd trans that came out of my 66 if you want to go back to a 3spd

 

I'm confused about "Sport" coupe vs "Holiday" coupe. I thought that the Sport desig. meant "fastback" and the Holiday desig. meant "Notchback" roof.

What in the VIN designates the different "C" pillar roof line?

 

77 aka sport/post
sport
87 aka holiday




holiday

 

I always appreciate the opportunity to learn something new about classic cars especially when the new info corrects long held erroneous beliefs.

Thanks for the reply. !!!

 

There were no "notchback" bodies in 68-69. The Supreme "notchback" body started in 70 and went on until 72.
However, 68-69 did have the coupe (Holiday) and the Sport (post sedan) both had the same rear "fastback" design.

 

Jim, nice looking car, price is reasonable if no serious rust, need to check underneath it. Front floors, around front/rear glass, inside trunk along wheel wells. I like to take a refrigerator magnet and go over entire car, if a panel is not straight, check for accident damage.

 

Keep in mind that the "notchback" roof on the 70-72 cars was designated as the xx57 body style. It was still called a Holiday Coupe, however. Holiday simply means hardtop in Oldsspeak.

 

16k isn't cheap until you buy a car for 5k that needs work and end up spending 30k and not happy on the end result of that 30k. You then realize you spend 35k on a car that still doesn't quite meet your expectations.

Looking at this car, $15k for a real 442 that looks nice and drives, with a 4-speed you can have fun with right away. Sounds like a deal to me.

 

[QUOTE=stevengerard;

Looking at this car, $15k for a real 442 that looks nice and drives with a 4-speed you can have fun with right away. Sounds like a deal to me.[/QUOTE]

I must agree. 15K for this car is a deal. I have just under at that in my 69 442,
(including the price I paid when bought), and it's still in a million pieces.

 

Ok, possibly going a different route and looking at a '69 Cutlass S convertible. Great body and top but could use a new interior going from cloth to leather. Cloth was put in by previous owner. 350/350 block is numbers matching. Needs shocks and possibly some suspension parts but drives good and mechanicals are good. Owner is at 13K so far. VIN: 336679Z113499. Could not find anything on this vin.

Any suggestions or ideas on this?

Jim

 

Why the change in direction?

 

I'm not sure what you want to get out of that VIN, but there is precious little info in a 1969 VIN anyway. The only piece of information contained there that you don't already know just by looking at the car is the fact that it came from the Fremont, CA assembly plant (the "Z" in the VIN tells us this"). Other than that, the VIN simply says that it is a 1969 model year Olds Cutlass S convertible, and it was the 13,499th Olds built at Fremont that year.

 

Really looked over the 442 this morning I had posted about and it is still a possibility but needs more work then originally thought. This conv. showed up and 1st look was pretty impressive especially with the price. I realize it possibly does not have the value of the 442? but think it will be something we might enjoy also. Still not definite on either and that is why I throw it out here to the experts to help guide me.

 

You don't say so I'll assume vert is an automatic?
Really two cars with different character. Drop top auto is a nice cruiser. 442 big block four speed is a muscle car. Question is what are you looking for?

Re the convertible - interior work gets pricey. Get quotes before you move forward.