I have always lived by the philosophy of Keep it Simple Stupid. It always amazes me how it is human nature to over complicate things. Today's cars are a fine example of how a simple machine has been transformed into a very complicated one. I have been fortunate to work with, work for, and have work for me a lot of fine mechanics over the years. One thing I have noticed is a lot of them liked to jump to a catastrophic failure before proving that was the case. I see a lot of threads in this forum that begin like my car is not running good so i think i need a rebuild. Bottom line is they would not do basic diagnostics. I currently own a beach house with 4 partners. Part of the package is a boat and a Yamaha 1300 R jet ski. A couple of weeks ago one of the partners called and said he was having some problems with the ski. Something about the throttle cable sticking and not running right. I told him to take it to a mechanic we have had perform maintenance for us several times. A week later I get a call from the mechanic telling us we need a new engine. I am thinking how did we go from a throttle cable to an engine but the mechanic sounds so confident that I am convinced he is right. He starts talking about trying to perform a compression test and the engine was locked up. He says he can put a new engine in for 3500.oo. We are not sure the jet ski is worth repairing so one of the other partners goes and picks it up. I finally get to look at it today and found out it needed a battery and a throttle cable. Wouldn't you think you would check a battery before trying to do a compression test? KISS.

 

you would think so

 

+1.

I can't add much to that. Sometimes I feel like a lone voice in the woods when this comes up.

- Eric

 

>>Wouldn't you think you would check a battery before trying to do a compression >>test? KISS.

not if he was looking to get a beach house of his own soon LOL

prolly part of the reason why i like to do anything I can myself and not farm it out to anyone

 

Having recently worked at a car dealership things have certainly changed over the years. They used to be mechanics..................now they are 'techs' and loathe the word mechanic. I used to tell them often that they were nothing more than 'replacers of parts'. No one fixes anything anymore, they just replace things. back in the day if something didn't work you took it apart and found the problem and fixed it. Today you just take it off and replace it. I miss the old days.
I was going out to lunch one day and one of the 'Techs' had his 70's era Chevy truck in the shop trying to fix the choke. About half a dozen of them were dumbfounded as to what to do. As I was practically walking by I gave them the run down as to how to fix the problem and the steps to take. Out to lunch I went. When I returned I noticed the truck was gone. I asked the tech how it worked. He exclaimed it never worked better. I just said 'yeah' and kept walking.
Funny in one way but sad on so many other levels.

 

Evidently, you had a communication win, and managed to reach those men.

:-)

 

Haha, you may be on to something Octania.

 

Cars are certainly more complex than they used to be, not altogether a bad thing as they are also more pleasant to drive as well.
I don't want to go back to crash gearboxes or rod operated brakes for example.
I agree techs are more like fitters than mechanics nowadays, but if fitting a new part costs less than the time it would take to repair the old one what would you do?.
Unfortunately the replace it culture has led to techs not really understanding how components work and how to adjust them properly, more and more faults are diagnosed by plugging in a computer and asking the car where it hurts. As has been well documented the diagnostic computer sometimes gets it wrong, (so can a mechanic btw!), this is where an experienced mechanic can save you $$$. The diagnosis might tell you the ignition is shot, whereas all that is needed might be new plug wires or some other minor repair.

Younger techs might have never seen points ignition or a carburettor, hardly surprising they struggle with older cars.
Of course this is where this forum -and similar forums for other makes- comes into its own, there are still plenty of people who do understand how older cars work and can offer help and advice even though they are not local to whoever asks for help. Forum members have been able to help each other across the world, from Detroit to Dubai, New York to New Zealand.

Roger.

 

Age, experience , laziness and a fixed income has taught me to look for the simple fixes first. The new stuff with a computer telling you a sensor is bad is great, but you still need to check the circuit and the specific sensor to determine what exactly is bad. Good troubleshooting has always taken time and patience. Just throwing money and parts at a problem by an inexperienced person usually creates addition problems.

 

I like simple, as in old car simple. Todays cars are way too hi tech, there is no reason that a car needs to have a voice controlled processor to operate things that used to take a flip of a switch. It takes more thought and time to tell your car to set a radio station, temp, lights, etc... In order to do a repair now a days, a truck has to have the cab removed to work on it's engine, full dashes removed to work on who knows what back there, computerized hand units to interface with the cars computer..

Sorry I'm stuck in the sixties and want to stay there where simple is the rule of thumb.

 

The same problem exists with finding parts. Today, if they can't walk into an auto parts store, and find the parts, the car is unrepairable in their mind. Way too many people rely on computers and others to do what they should have learned to do for themselves. That is to learn about their car, and then learn how to locate the obsolete part. In the past year, I have faced this twice needing to locate parts that were obsolete. What I did, was to find the part number, and then search for the part by number. In both instances, I found the part within 5 minutes, even though I had to either wait for the auction to end, or make a telephone call to purchase it from a obsolete parts dealer. In both instances, the selling parties didn't know the exact application of the part, but they did know that it was "valuable". I gladly paid the asking price, because to me, I needed the parts to get the car back on the road, and felt that it was worth it to me. Like most things in life, the people that learn to fend for themselves, succeed the best. Teach a man to fish, and he will enjoy fish for a lifetime. Give the man a fish, and he will eat for a day...

 

Here is another example. We just bought a new stove. Nothing wrong with the old one but my wife wanted one with the new style smooth glass cook top. The old one you would spin a dial until the pointer was at the desired temp setting and that was it, you were cooking. The new and improved digital version you:
step 1, select bake, broil, Step 2, enter cook temp, Step 3 set timer, Step 4 , hit start. If you forget to hit start you come back 15 minutes later to a cold oven and start over. And all this is simpler in what way?

 

Sooner or later a manufacture is going to realize there is a big market for autos and trucks with only the basics needed to meet fed regulations and basic transportation. I don't want to pay for a car that talks, parks itself, has traffic and blind spot warnings, heated seats and steering wheels etc. Some company is going to build a modern Model T and make a killing, then screw it up by eventually making that car larger and fancier.
Look at the first mini-pickups, the Geo Trackers, etc.

 

And wait until that little keypad wears out and the cook top gets scratched. Don't ask me how I know.

Why do we need all of our appliances and everything else in our lives wifi capable to be monitored by or Iphone.

 

Good thread.
I must agree with the above.
However, over engine nerd seems
to be the norm for several years now.

 

Cars were good, and they did what they needed to do. Then, the scope changed. You have to get great mileage, idle well when cold, good efficiency, no emissions, yet have power. Also, you have to make sure your occupants don't get injured in a wreck.

That resulted in computer controlled cars and crumple zones.

 

I know what you mean, Sampson.

Several years ago my wife and I were in the market for a replacement for our ca 1980 Jenn-Air-type Kenmore stove.
I found an ad in the local want-ad paper not too far away, and we drove up in the pickup and bought a Jenn-Air stove with glass cooktops, center blower, and computer controls for $175.
Got it home, set it up, and I found that a few things just plain didn't work on it.
Took it apart, found a bad relay and some crappy, heat-damaged solder joints and bad traces on the circuit board.
Soldered them up, put it back together, and it works fine.

A service guy would have told us we had to replace the board. For how much? Maybe $400 or more? Plus how much in labor?

Troubleshoot, examine, repair, use.

Simple.

- Eric

 

Customer came in today, tranny shop had told him he needed a new trans. We found that it needed an input speed sensor, which kept it from shifting. $25.00.

 

Well, not to steal or jump the thread, BUT.....My transmission fluid has leaked, poured out while driving home a while back. Car has been sitting, waiting for moola to repair. Everyone at work keeps saying its the pump seal(?), and I should rebuild the transmission since it has to be lowered to fix the pump seal. It was fine before the fluid let go. Any thoughts. Know enough to get myself into trouble!!!!

 

It depends on how low the fluid got, how far you drove, and how hot the trans got. It's probably a good idea to rebuild it as it has to come out anyway. Your looking at probably $600-750 if you pull it yourself.

You can always pull the pan and see how much particulate is in there. If there isn't that much and the filter is relatively clean, and the fluid is still a nice pink color with no abnormal odor, then you may get away with just resealing it.

 

My old Chevy did that. Got a seal job done for like 150. Only issue was the modulator hose was not on there well, and I had to fix it later when it came off and just gave me first gear.

 

Newer stuff is certainly much more efficient & generally will have a less finicky personality on a sub-zero &/or 100+ degree day .....

But it just dumbfounds me as to the oh-so-simple things that manufacturers can't or won't do worth a dump.

A couple of things off the top of my head :

$1500 climate control system repairs that require yanking the entire dash ... due to the failure of .05 piece of plastic that could have been entirely avoided by using a .35 cent piece of metal instead.

Disposable window regulators with snapping cables. Nothing like having a window come crashing down completely unexpectedly & then having to yank a door panel & play MacGyver in trying to get it to stay up. That is assuming it didn't shatter into a million pieces already or you weren't driving thru a bad part of town at the time & your now like DEAD because you were a convenient opportunity to some thug.

And as a bonus ...

These things are even more of a joy if they happen to be an issue at the same time. Nothing like going thru the drama of MacGyverin' your droopy windows in the fully closed position to have your a/c system decide it wants to default over to full heat in the middle of the summer when you're all done cause' some lil' 1 inch plastic peg broke.

But hey ...

At least every newer vehicle on the road will show a return of .014343343 % better fuel economy due to all those lighter weight materials in the dash & doors.

And don't get me started on who decided that tail lamps should have some sort of internal circuit board of sorts with only (1) connector so they can save $1.17 per car not having to use a couple more old-school sockets & some extra wiring.

But on the bright side ...

Think of all the time saved vs having to unplug all those separate sockets.

That's time that would have been gone forever ... imagine what someone might have missed ?.

 

^^ those mid to late 90's GM's
were a nightmare. A good, (or bad)
example, 93 Olds 98. Electronics from hell.
A fall from grace for sure.

 

Ok more keep it simple stuff.
What happened to on off switches? Used to be you flipped a switch on an appliance and you could look and see it was either on or off. Now we have power buttons. You hit the power button on the remote of your TV, computer or cell phone and nothing happens for several seconds and that is when it is operating right. So when the battery is dead or something is wrong you don't know whether it is just taking longer than usual to power up or is something wrong. You just stare at the darn thing and wonder what to do. I fail to see where this is an improvement

 

This is a big pet peave of mine. My washer and dryer have maybe $75.00 in them and both have been in my house 10 years after being thrown out by someone else. Don't get me started on radioas, cell phone and bluetooth integration in cars. I waste so much time with that crap with customer complaints I don't duplicate or computers logic locking (mulitple modules trying to do something at the same time and since they use the same serial data lines locking up entire systems)


The bigger issue I see coming is there are no up and coming techs. I work for a large dealership and 80% of my techs are with in 10 years retirement or less and I see the same thing in other dealerships. Due to government and manufactures wonderful idea of oil life moniter systems that take people 7, 8,9,10K and more between oil changes we have more internal engine work that we have ever had. We have been trying for 6 months to fill an opening for a qualified line tech and have not been able to find anyone to hire.

There is a huge future problem with workforce in this country. The everyone gets a trophy generation walk out on the the first time you even slightly try to scold someone or raise your voice out of displeasure because they screwed up. I have had kids out of college literly start crying and quit because they messed up and have to answer for it.

 

You also don't know whether it is really off.

I've heard stories from time to time that "they" could listen in on you through your cell phone even when it is switched off, and just the other day saw this mentioned in a newspaper article by a respectable journalist, so now I'm actually wondering about it.

- Eric

 

Reminds me of my distrust for unattended cell phone cameras.

If I had a dollar for every time I've told my other half to stop laying her cell phone down with the camera side facing UPWARDS .....

I would be a very rich man.

 

I seem to recall (details are a bit hazy now), about three or four years ago, I think in Pennsylvania, a case where a school district distributed Mac laptops to all of the kids (as my boy's school did that year), and included a piece of remotely activated spyware that allowed the school to turn on the camera at any time and watch the students.

I believe that a school employee was fired, because it was discovered he was watching certain students in their bedrooms.

Legit story - I remember it because my own kid had the same computer and the local district made some announcements about it.

- Eric

 

Another KISS. I have a 30 year old Stereo Amp. It is a Kenwood model
1000 III. It has large switches and ***** and back lighting so you can see what each thing is for even in the dark. My newer stereo surround sound has these small little buttons that blend in with the face of the unit with and labeling so small and dark colored that you need a microscope to read them. So now we are back to the previous KISS. The power button on the remote control

 

X2.
I do not want to get too sidetracked on politics here but. I face the same problem with heavy equipment techs. They are just not out there! Unemployment in NC is 8.8 %. My top techs are making $25.00 per hour and I cannot fill tech positions There is a heavy equipment/Diesel training program at the local community college. I sponsor and participate in the program. There are always more employers looking to hire than graduates at the job fairs.

 

Since people began writing they've complained about the younger generation. I don't buy into that. There has always been good & bad but most in the middle workers. You only notice it because of the position your in. Business use to have Helpers or Apprentices to work their way into the skilled job. Now business' don't want the expense/trouble to train workers because there were a pool of skilled workers out there. The pool may be running low. Maybe the problem is the business/managers have changed. I recently retired after 43.5 years in the steel industry. I have seen lots of success stories. Try hiring a young guy who will show up/work at a lower wage and train/apprentice with your better workers. I think you'll see success stories and also get a more loyal employee instead of one who will leave you for the first opportunity. Jmo, Ken

 

Sometimes they even replace the part that's actually broken on THE FIRST FEW ATTEMPTS.

 

I'm not saying every person in the young generation is bad but I have first hand experience a whole lot of kids today have had there hand held and now they are in there late 20's and don't know have a clue how the working world opperates. So many of these kids have never had to do anything on their own.

 

Ken, I did not mean my comments to be a slam on the young generation. My company has 4 classes of maintenance personnel. Yard men who clean and grease the equipment and the A B & C mechanics. Class A mechanics are the top tier. I cannot fill tech positions period, even offering top pay scales. I find this ironic considering the high rate of unemployment in our state and the training programs offered by the local community colleges and my company. Something does not add up to my way of thinking!

 

You can say what you want about new cars but I just bought my wife a new 2013 Taurus, the little V6 makes almost 300 HP gets 28 MPG and it so quiet you can't tell you are going 20 over the speed limit unless you watch the speedo all the time, it's damed nice car.
I don't think there is anything wrong with todays kids, it's there helicopter parents hovering over them trying to make every decision for them, that's why there are so many 30 year olds still living at home, a third of the homes on my block have kids old enough to mow the lawn but mom and dad pay a lawn service instead of kicking the kid out to mow. When I was a kid if you didn't work you didn't eat. If you don't as a parent instill a good work ethic in your kids you can't expect them to work there asses off like so many of us do. I'm not saying all parents are this way. I see a lot of young guys come through where I work and bad work ethic is all thats wrong with the ones that don't hang around long, you have to be taught good work ethics by someone and it should be your parents.
I may be all washed up but that's what I think!

 

This is exactly what I am saying you just said it better.

 

Yesterday my neighbour asked me to look at his fathers car (a Vauxhall Corsa but that isn't important) because it was making nasty noises.

Turned out a bolt had broken off that held the accessory belt tensioner, it had snapped leaving no exposed thread. The offending bolt was in the timing cover, to remove the timing cover meant removing the pan and cylinder head as well as the accessories attached.
The dealer quoted £760 ($1100) to do the job, so I made another bracket and fitted it to the alternator mounting.
This cured the problem, but from now on adjusting the belt tension will have to be done manually.
A victory for KISS in this case!.

Roger.

 

The 1st time a kid touches a lawn mower it's more about being able to brag you got the play with something w/a motor.

After that wears off & you get older it does become nothing but a chore vs the symbolism of becoming a man & getting older.

Regardless ... it was something I just did living at home at the time vs having to be asked. Same thing with taking garbage out/in ... you just did it without having to be nagged about it.

I've seen with my own (2) eyes a situation with a single parent that would get ZERO help with the simple task of taking out the trash & bringing the cans/bins back in. Nothing like being in a profession where you could be violently killed at any given moment working 12 hours a day to keep a roof over your kids heads ... & they can't even take 5 minutes to bring the cans & bins in for you ?. It's something he had to do when he got home 12+ hours later ?. Keep in mind one of these kids was a full grown adult & the other was just about 18.

Don't know how in the hell he thought that was acceptable & why he allowed it to happen ... but it's his own fault & that sort of mindset will continue on when his kids have kids.

So much for what's right - what's wrong & having some principle's.

People say they don't make things like they used to ...

Sadly "people" are one of those things.

 

Yeah. This is a tough one.

When I was a kid, I used to like cutting the grass - I'd do it even if nobody asked, because I liked the way the place looked with the grass all neat and tidy.

After a while, I got paid for doing some adjacent areas, so that didn't hurt either.

My own kid now will do it if I tell him he has to do it right now, but he does what I call his "John McCain with the North Vietnamese" thing - "I will resist no matter what injustice you force upon me." He does it, but the absolute minimum acceptable amount and quality - absolutely no concern for doing any job well.
And this, in spite of seeing me work 12 hour days, and do all sorts of jobs very carefully and nicely.

Basically, I can force him to do it, but I can't force him to care.
It's very frustrating, really.

- Eric

 

Over engineering of motors today is what gets me. Something that used to be so mechanically simple is now controlled by sensors and computers. The electric failures I've had amount to throwing money at problems that never were mechanical to begin with. Like cam and crank sensors, car wont start! On my 07 ford I had a cam phaser die and destroy my engine. Like really a cam advance/ retard controlled by computer and oil pressure with veins! Since when did I have Star Wars under my hood?