When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Got my judging sheet back from the OCA Nationals. Got 984 points out of 1000. I was surprised it is that high. I am not big into the points thing but is interesting to see their comments. Obviously I lost 8 points for the radial tires and that was my choice to take that deduction. I can't justify another set of tires and wheels for points.
They got me 2 points for warn felt on the side glass and that is fair. I reused the originals and I can't really tell they are worn but they obviously could tell, good eye...
They got me for a dent on the rear bumper and that is also fair. There is a spot that a large number of these bumpers have. It is where the inner bracing is welded on and they slightly dent the bumper when they spot weld them. Melissa's car is the same way. I told them specifically not to fix that when I had them re-chromed. I did not want show chrome so imperfections I am ok with and if they need to deduct for that, I am ok with that.
They got me for 2 points on the cracked steering wheel. For sure a fair judgement because it does have a really large crack in it.
1 point for the little cracks in the driver seat, also very fair.
1 point for the carpet being worn near the throttle pedal and that is also correct.
So overall they done a great job judging it. I may not have counted the dent on the rear bumper but most people would not know that many of them were that way when new. There are things they didn't find so maybe I am lucky it wasn't worse.
Although points and judging is not my thing I sure did enjoy it. Then to get the best post war car flat shocked me. Simply speechless over that one. He told me they mail that award out. Looking forward to seeing it.
For a Jetfire to get best postwar over a horde of 50s cars, Toronados and performance A-bodies says a lot.
Be honest- how many supposedly hardcore Oldsmobile people have you met who didn't know what a Jetfire is, much less its significance as the first production turbocharged American car?
If there had been reliable electronic fuel injection and engine management back then, imagine what could have been🚀. Or for that matter if Olds had just dropped the compression to something more tolerant of the huffing device.
Congrats Eric. The post war car award is well deserved. I know you are proud and you have every right to be.
Amen. I love your car
Originally Posted by rocketraider
👏👏👏
For a Jetfire to get best postwar over a horde of 50s cars, Toronados and performance A-bodies says a lot.
Be honest- how many supposedly hardcore Oldsmobile people have you met who didn't know what a Jetfire is, much less its significance as the first production turbocharged American car?
If there had been reliable electronic fuel injection and engine management back then, imagine what could have been🚀. Or for that matter if Olds had just dropped the compression to something more tolerant of the huffing device.
I also agree with everything said here.
I didn't realize that motor has strong compression. What is the compression on that motor?
I didn't realize that motor has strong compression. What is the compression on that motor?
10.25 compression with 6.5 PSI boost. When you calculate them together it comes to 14.78 compression. That is why they injected the Turbo Rocket Fluid, The water evaporates and cools the intake air to prevent detonation.
They got me for a dent on the rear bumper and that is also fair. There is a spot that a large number of these bumpers have. It is where the inner bracing is welded on and they slightly dent the bumper when they spot weld them. Melissa's car is the same way. I told them specifically not to fix that when I had them re-chromed.
THAT is some bullshirt, right there
You did a faithful restoration and got dinged for keeping it the way it came.
Not a big deal, it does have a dent. Most people would have fixed it and not been an issue. I chose to leave it like it was and knew this could happen. About like the tires. I knew I would get the deduction. I build them for me and not the judges. They could have docked me much worse on other things so it works out.
984 is a outstanding score especially since you had radials on it and it wasn't built as a points car. Shows you dedication to detail. Congratulations well deserved...... Tedd
They don't do that anymore. You get them in the mail. This prevents a butt hurt person from making an issue of it there on the spot.
And after thinking about what I said.... Crappy coming from someone who won an award. More reason why I should avoid the judging and awards. I simply am not into it enough to get butt hurt about points and not thinking about someone in a real issue situation. I made the comment thinking about past situations I witnessed that were over something silly.
You also weren't surprised by the deductions because you knew those problem areas.
I don't agree with the bumper, especially if it is a known manufacturer defect. I also don't agree with being discriminated against on the tires because you actually drive the car and want to be safe. You're 9 points higher by my sheet.
We've had these discussions before; I still feel the same way. Some of the rules need to be reserved for a Concours de Elegance class full of trailer queens.
Unfortunately, aside from the PIM, there aren't any published standards for restoring these cars for judging, definitely not like NCRS would have. Therefore, it's all opinion. We all know that none of these cars came from the showroom looking like they do now, so people create artwork, and the art is subject to interpretation...
And after thinking about what I said.... Crappy coming from someone who won an award. More reason why I should avoid the judging and awards. I simply am not into it enough to get butt hurt about points and not thinking about someone in a real issue situation. I made the comment thinking about past situations I witnessed that were over something silly.
I am striving to minimize the number of people that have any input over anything in my life. I find I get the most irritated when critiqued or judged or tasked by people so I try not to allow people input in the first place. I don't think I've had a car in a judged show of any kind (where I cared and stuck around for awards) in 15 years. This is also why I am looking forward to retirement.
Congrats to both Jasen and Eric for their amazing cars. Either one could have easily won a Overall Best Of Show if there was such an award.
Got my sheet. Scored a 970. Pretty disappointed in my Engine Compartment score - 20 of my total deducted points or 66% of the total deduction. Not with the things noted, but with the points deducted - 5 points deducted out of 10 (a 50 out 100 percentage kind of score) on Paint for a couple of almost invisible paint chips, 5 deducted out of 15 for Detail, (66%), and unbelievably, 5 out of 20 for Authenticity. Most of you guys know my work and some saw the car. We need to reconfigure the scoring sheet to eliminate these imbalances.
Congrats to both Jasen and Eric for their amazing cars. Either one could have easily won a Overall Best Of Show if there was such an award.
Got my sheet. Scored a 970. Pretty disappointed in my Engine Compartment score - 20 of my total deducted points or 66% of the total deduction. Not with the things noted, but with the points deducted - 5 points deducted out of 10 (a 50 out 100 percentage kind of score) on Paint for a couple of almost invisible paint chips, 5 deducted out of 15 for Detail, (66%), and unbelievably, 5 out of 20 for Authenticity. Most of you guys know my work and some saw the car. We need to reconfigure the scoring sheet to eliminate these imbalances.
Something needs to be done for sure. Like I said in my above post about the red 66 W-30 scoring a 998 and losing BOC due to lack of firewall seam sealer. The car had the factory applied seam sealer and hadn't been touched or replaced,go figure.
Congrats to both Jasen and Eric for their amazing cars. Either one could have easily won a Overall Best Of Show if there was such an award.
Got my sheet. Scored a 970. Pretty disappointed in my Engine Compartment score - 20 of my total deducted points or 66% of the total deduction. Not with the things noted, but with the points deducted - 5 points deducted out of 10 (a 50 out 100 percentage kind of score) on Paint for a couple of almost invisible paint chips, 5 deducted out of 15 for Detail, (66%), and unbelievably, 5 out of 20 for Authenticity. Most of you guys know my work and some saw the car. We need to reconfigure the scoring sheet to eliminate these imbalances.
This is exactly why the sheets and criteria for your class and my class are being retooled for 2022. The categories unfortunately aren’t 1:1 for items that may be deducted.
I am striving to minimize the number of people that have any input over anything in my life. I find I get the most irritated when critiqued or judged or tasked by people so I try not to allow people input in the first place. I don't think I've had a car in a judged show of any kind (where I cared and stuck around for awards) in 15 years. This is also why I am looking forward to retirement.
Says the guy who hasn’t had a car judged in 15 years and gets “irritated” when judged. Were you there? Did you volunteer to help?
Says the guy who hasn’t had a car judged in 15 years and gets “irritated” when judged. Were you there? Did you volunteer to help?
Yes. Says me. There are two examples on this page of judges messing up, and those are to which I was referring. My personal stance on judged car shows, nor my lack of presence at the 2021 OCA Nationals, notwithstanding.
Ad hom is a really shitty way to argue, btw. That's why it's called a "logical fallacy."
Yes. Says me. There are two examples on this page of judges messing up, and those are to which I was referring. My personal stance on judged car shows, nor my lack of presence at the 2021 OCA Nationals, notwithstanding.
Ad hom is a really shitty way to argue, btw. That's why it's called a "logical fallacy."
Your ignorance to not knowing the scoring sheet, the process, or even the participants, yet passing blame to the volunteers is really the shitty way to argue.
It was simply a comment based on the experiences of two other members based on what they related. I read your updated signature and now see that you are very proud of your car's best in class status from this year's meet. Congratulations; my comment was not meant to diminish the awesomeness of your achievement, or the OCA, or the judges in general, or the Oldsmobile marque, or General Motors, Inc. so there's no need to be so damn dyspeptic about it. Please direct all future ire towards any criticism of the OCA judging to the people that had the experiences and related the shortcomings, not the one comment I made about it.
THAT is some bullshirt, right there
You did a faithful restoration and got dinged for keeping it the way it came.
and that is WHY this judging is BS. The idiot judges weren't around 60+ years ago and trying to make a vehicle appear like it did 60 years ago when it rolled off the factory floor is stupid. Even when the OP recreated the way the car flaw the way it left the factory, he gets dinged for it. Tell the judges to F off
Something needs to be done for sure. Like I said in my above post about the red 66 W-30 scoring a 998 and losing BOC due to lack of firewall seam sealer. The car had the factory applied seam sealer and hadn't been touched or replaced,go figure.
One of 100's of examples that reinforces how flawed and rigged these judging events are. These cars were hand assembled and quality control back then was abysmal at best. No two cars were assembled the same due to those factors. Trying to judge a car based on such wide variables is stupid at best.
It has been said that you can take a car directly from the assembly line from the 60's and early 70's, put it immediately into an air storage container. Open up the container 50+ years later and take it such a show and the judges will claim it's not original and judge it as a flawed restoration even though it is a 100% original car with no miles on it.
