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Did a quick little search on here, and have seen a few have opted for the inline tube brake line kits..seemingly to good use (aside from a couple qc issues sporadically on IT end)
Has anyone used them for the prebent fuel lines? I know stainless is best, but is the steel coated or even worth bothering with?
Back to the brake lines, with it being a power system, disc front and drum rear, which PN am I looking at?
I used both the ILT fuel and brake line sets. As mentioned, a little bit of tweaking for final fit, but otherwise good product. I don't have PNs handy, but their website is very user friendly.
Hi Brian, I've used Inlines stuff & the quality seems very good. I too have had some issues with their customer service but I'd still buy from them.( They're shipping to Ohio is fast) I personally think stainless is over-kill on a car that's not going to be driven that much. They're harder to seal sometimes. Looking at your engine compartment pics it appears the you have the later '71 up style master. '69 should have a dual-bail master & the small "hold-off" valve bolted to it that I don't see on yours? It uses a short line that goes from the front port on the master to the valve. If they used later model parts it should have a combination valve (usually brass) bolted to the frame down below the master. The later combo valve takes the place of the separate hold-off valve. The original style just uses a simple "distribution block" with a warning switch on the frame. When I converted my 442 to disc I just bought the 3 line kit for the the master along with the "proper" dual bail style master. I used the '69 up single piston calipers like your car should have. Both style systems work fine. I lucked out since my car had never been in salt & all the rest of the brake lines were in excellent shape everything unbolted when I did the conversion so I didn't replace them. I did buy the new ones that go across the rear end while I was detailing the rear. I put up a pic of the master setup on mine & the 2 styles of "blocks", the later "combo valve is much larger. They show the smaller( correct style) distribution block in brass but most of the factory ones were cast iron. Like I said either system is fine as long as the correct parts are used. It just depends on how "original
you want it to look.
I'm fairly certain mine uses the proportioning valve on the frame.
I'd strongly considered replacing Master and Booster anyway, surely I could go back to the OE style setup (I'd have to if using the OE style prebent lines) unless there's that much of a performance difference between the two. I know I absolutely hated the proportioning valve in my Dodge, so the thought of that again kinda spooks me..ha.
I'm fairly certain mine uses the proportioning valve on the frame.
I'd strongly considered replacing Master and Booster anyway, surely I could go back to the OE style setup (I'd have to if using the OE style prebent lines) unless there's that much of a performance difference between the two. I know I absolutely hated the proportioning valve in my Dodge, so the thought of that again kinda spooks me..ha.
A 1969 factory disc brake car did not use a proportioning valve. The 1967-70 A-body cars with factory disc brakes used only the metering valve under the master cylinder. Contrary to what some vendors say, this is NOT a proportioning valve, since it controls the front brakes, not the rear. GM used careful selection of the rear brake wheel cylinders (which are different between drum and disc cars in those years) to modulate rear brake force without using a prop valve. The thing on the frame on your car is only a distribution block. There is no valving in it and it's the same dist block used on drum brake cars that year. 1971 was the first year that GM used a proportioning valve on the A-body cars, and that was integrated into the big combo valve that replaced the dist block on disc brake cars.
I'll snap some better pics when I get home. The block/valve on the frame looked dead nuts similar to the valve on my Dodge (after switching to universal/aftermarket due to no replacement parts availability).
That would also support the idea that it's a 71+ setup based on the master as previously mentioned.
Like I said, I'm good with returning it to factory. It evidently worked, so why not just go back to it. I've dealt with mixed stuff long enough.
Like I said, I'm good with returning it to factory. It evidently worked, so why not just go back to it. I've dealt with mixed stuff long enough.
Nothing wrong with that, but if this car was previously converted from drums, chances are it doesn't have the correct rear wheel cylinders either. Just be aware of that.
Nothing wrong with that, but if this car was previously converted from drums, chances are it doesn't have the correct rear wheel cylinders either. Just be aware of that.
Fair point.
Brakes are next on the list once the fuel system rebuild is finished, I just figured I'd pose this question as brake and fuel as I'll be ordering both and an opportunity to get ahead on parts in house (er, garage)
Wow, apparently Inline has really made some enemies! I've had six or seven transactions with them over eight years and never had an issue. Hopefully they've fired whomever it was that was screwing things up!
That's not a valve, that's a distribution block. There's no valve in it, only the piston that serves to activate the BRAKE idiot light if you loose pressure in one half of the system. In 1969 this same part was used on both drum and disc brake cars.
That's a later model year master cylinder, so it isn't original to the car (despite the fact that it has bleeder screws). The correct 1969 factory disc brake M/C was a "dual bale" unit that looked like this:
Also a factory disc brake car used the metering valve under the M/C, like this. Since those appear to be OEM drum brake lines, I'm guessing this car was converted at some point.
Is there a place that sells the correct OE setup as a kit? Or is it more hassle than it's worth. Not just for sake of the lines, but for originality purpose.
Ultimately, the more I think about this process, the more I want to strive for as close to original as possible..aside from the incorrect paint color and interior (thats a conversation about my wallet at that point).
Is there a place that sells the correct OE setup as a kit? Or is it more hassle than it's worth. Not just for sake of the lines, but for originality purpose.
Ultimately, the more I think about this process, the more I want to strive for as close to original as possible..aside from the incorrect paint color and interior (thats a conversation about my wallet at that point).
You can buy the pieces individually, but I'm not aware of any complete, CORRECT kits. Lots of kits using the newer combo valve, but none of these vendors even understand the unique features of the OEM disc brake cars (like the special rear wheel cylinders). The tubing vendors sell repros of the correct metering valve and the brass dist block. You can get replacement rear wheel cylinders from Raybestos and Wagner, but order by bore, not from an on-line application catalog that is likely to be incorrect. Inline and Right Stuff do sell the correct line sets for these cars with the OEM brake components.
If I switch from ‘66 drum/drum to disk/drum F/R, do I need to use later year rear wheel cylinders? As far as I know, I’ve been using ‘66 rear wheel cylinders with 70 master cylinder and 71 or so proportioning valves — am I mismatching the parts?
In both cars I do have an adjustable proportioning valve between the GM one and the rears to be sure the rears lock up first.
If I switch from ‘66 drum/drum to disk/drum F/R, do I need to use later year rear wheel cylinders? As far as I know, I’ve been using ‘66 rear wheel cylinders with 70 master cylinder and 71 or so proportioning valves — am I mismatching the parts?
In both cars I do have an adjustable proportioning valve between the GM one and the rears to be sure the rears lock up first.
Am I about right for safety?
cheers
cf
The goal is to properly balance front and rear braking force so that you don't prematurely lock the rear wheels (which could lead to the back end passing the front if it happens in a turn). There are several ways to do this. The most elegant way is to properly balance brake force by carefully selecting the components. This is what GM did on the 67-70 cars - the different rear wheel cylinders were used instead of the prop valve. The problem with this design is that there is that having two different rear wheel cylinders makes it easy to mix them up on the assembly line.
A proportioning valve is just a band aid. It reduces the amount of braking force delivered from the rear wheels to prevent premature lockup. GM used this starting with the 1971-up cars (note that I'm only talking about A-body cars here, other models used a prop valve in different years). This let GM keep the same rear wheel cylinders and just modulate the amount of pressure going to them.
Either way works. You do NOT want to do both (prop valve AND smaller rear wheel cylinders). You also do NOT want to use an adjustable prop valve in series with a factory combo valve. Use one or the other, not both.
I'll also point out that just because you haven't had a problem doesn't mean that you've got a correctly designed system that will work under worst-case emergency conditions. Keep in mind that it took NASA 25 flights before they had a really bad day with the space shuttle. That whole "well it's worked fine so far" mentality was a major cause of the Challenger accident.
Well, shoutout to the guy at Inline who actually asked for my phone number.
Long story short, ordered a few things that'd be right for what I had and they don't fit. Out of ignorance and frustration, I sent a few emails to Inline at which point over the phone call it was determined my car started life as a drum brake car..so what I had was hodge-podged together (briefly alluded to here, but that it was converted to a post-70 setup)
Went ahead and ordered the correct pieces to return it back to the 69 disc setup, and once they're in I'll just slam everything together and brakes will be done.
If you are striving for originality, 67-70 disc brake cars used 4 piston calipers with 2 piece rotors. You likely have the 71-up single piston calipers on the car now.
If you are striving for originality, 67-70 disc brake cars used 4 piston calipers with 2 piece rotors. You likely have the 71-up single piston calipers on the car now.
Sorry, no. Only the 67-68 cars used four piston calipers. The 69-77 cars all use the same single piston D52 calipers.
Just came back in from trying to bleed the system. I had light flow in the rears to start, now I can't get anything out. Got the book out and noticed it said to start at the front and work your way to the back...opposite of what I've always done.
Just came back in from trying to bleed the system. I had light flow in the rears to start, now I can't get anything out. Got the book out and noticed it said to start at the front and work your way to the back...opposite of what I've always done.
Could my issue be related to starting out back?
No. I have never been able to figure out why which end you start at matters if the system is split front and back. This might matter in a single circuit system, but in a split system the front and back are separate. The most likely problem is that you've pushed the differential pressure switch all the way to one side, which is restricting flow. That's why they make the tool to hold it centered.
No. I have never been able to figure out why which end you start at matters if the system is split front and back. This might matter in a single circuit system, but in a split system the front and back are separate. The most likely problem is that you've pushed the differential pressure switch all the way to one side, which is restricting flow. That's why they make the tool to hold it centered.
I thought the distribution block didn't act like a proportioning valve in that regard.
I have the distribution block and the metering valve under the master cylinder.
In order to reset it then, I need to go ahead and bleed the front again..right?
The issue isn't the prop valve, it's the differential pressure switch, which is the only thing that IS in that dist block. I just grabbed that photo to illustrate the tool.
The issue isn't the prop valve, it's the differential pressure switch, which is the only thing that IS in that dist block. I just grabbed that photo to illustrate the tool.
Gotcha. So, same idea applies though right? Bleeding the fronts will reset it and I'll need to find said tool to help keep it centered?
I've never had to use the tool either, but I have occasionally pushed the differential pressure switch piston to one side and had to reset it. Since I've been using the Vacula brake bleeder, it's never an issue. I don't even need to bench bleed the M/C, the Vacula pulls all the air out.
Alright...went out and used the compressor assisted bleeder on the fronts to (hopefully) help reset the block. Went around to the back and had it hooked up and running for about 15-20 minutes and still got nothing. Had the wife watching the fluid level like a hawk and she said it didn't even move (makes sense as nothing came out of the bleeders)
Am I missing something here? I may be overly frustrated as I've fought a dead nuts similar issue in a previous car for years and never got it sorted out. I swear, bleeding brakes will be the death of me.
The bleeder won't reset the differential pressure switch. You need to crack open a front bleeder and lightly press the pedal. That's the only way to generate enough pressure in the rear system. Once you do that, THEN use the vacuum bleeder at all four wheels. Done.
Should I crack it open, then start at the rears then? I opened the front left, stabbed the pedal, closed it, then hooked up the vacuum system starting at the left front then moving to right front then rears.
I would start by loosening the lines where they enter the dist. block from the M/C and verify that you get fluid there. If you do, tighten those and work your way back at each connection to figure out where you don't get fluid. That will tell you where the problem is.
Not to sound dense, but how could I tell if it's getting fluid versus any residual since the valve has it blocked off? I loosened it at one point hoping it'd be dry (that'd help sell the idea I had at the time that the block wasn't reset) but I had a small bit of fluid coming out.
Granted, I asked the wife to out about half pedal and hold it when I started, so it may have just been the most I was going to get.
May 18th, 2021, 05:19 AM
I've had six or seven transactions with them over eight years and never had an issue. Hopefully they've fired whomever it was that was screwing things up!
