Hi all, this is my first post and I've come here searching for some info on a car I own. A little of my background first. I come from a long line of Oldsmobile lovers on my mother's side of the family. My grandfather spent over 50 years working at an Olds dealership, serving first as a salesman, then sales manager, and finally lease manager, the position he held until he passed away. He passed that love of Oldsmobiles on to all four of his children, all of whom have owned many classic Olds products over the years. One of my aunts even married into the family that owned the dealership where my grandfather worked. Somewhere along the line, I lost my way, and while I do appreciate the Olds brand, I have to say that my true passion is Pontiacs. Enough about me, maybe now you can help me with the car that I own.

I aquired the car in question from my mother, it is a 1967 Cutlass Supreme convertible. She purchased this car in the late '70s in California while she lived out there, trading in a 1971 Delta 88 convertible for the Cutlass. She enjoyed the car for many years before passing it on to me, repainting it and having the interior replaced along the way. After stashing the car away for ten years, I decided to pull it out and figure out what I'm going to do with it. This is where it gets interesting. My mother always refered to the car as the "442", and I asked her why she did this since the car is clearly a Cutlass Supreme. She told me the car is indeed a Supreme, but was optioned with the 442 engine and transmission. Since removing it from storage, I've started to look into what this car is and my head is spinning (definitly not as clear cut as IDing a Pontiac).

After numerous searches on the internet, I couldn't find anything about the 442 engine being available in anything but the 442. I was in serious doubt as to whether that was what it actually was (at some point in time the engine was painted that mid 70's GM blue, which raised even more red flags), so I searched for a way to ID the engine. After checking a few sites, and getting some info on where to find numbers on the block and heads, this is what I found.

*Engine casting number - 390925E
*Cylinder head casting - left head has a "B", right head has a "C". Both heads have holes for AIR tubes which are plugged. I thought this was a '70s smogger motor until 442.com listed these heads as 66-67 California equipped only. I think this helps to verify the originality of the car, since it came from Cali.
*Car currently has a Holly carb and an Edelbrock intake, but I have what I believe is the original carb and might know the whereabouts of the original intake.

The car is optioned as follows.
*Air conditioning (rare option on a convertible?)
*Power steering
*Power brakes
*Power windows
*Power top
*Vaccuum powered trunk release
*Bucket seats with center console
I'm sure there's more, this is what stands out to me.

I guess my biggest question is are there many, if any, Cutlass Supremes out there optioned this way? Is there any way to verify what this car actually is? I know Pontiac offered PHS (Pontiac Historical Services) to help owners ID their vehicles and provide build sheets and window stickers. Is there anything like this available for Olds owners? I am considering selling this car and would like to get a rough idea as to it's value. I can get some pictures to post if anybody would like to see the car. Thanks in advance for your time and any info you can provide.

 

Welcome to the site! I'm not an expert on 1967's but I've never heard of the 400 being put in the Cutlass Supreme without the 442 option package, which includes emblems. Back in the day things could be special ordered but this may be difficult to verify without paperwork. The B head is a 1966 head, and the C a 1967 so somewhere along the way the engine has been messed with. One of the best sites for 1967 details that I've come across is Oldsmobility.com They are re-doing the site but at this time I'm more familiar with the old organization. Here's a link to that site:

http://www.oldsmobility.com/old/index.htm


There are some members here who know a lot about the 1967's so one of them will have to speak up and shed more light on the matter.

John

 

...and of course pictures. We all love pics of whats out there. Especially convertibles!

 

You are right - this is an interesting car. The 442 was an option off of the Cutlass Supreme. The engine is certainly a 400ci block. The heads are "consistent" except that I would expect to see "C" heads on a '67. The "B" head was used on the '66 400ci model - perhaps one of the heads was replaced in the past, perhaps even before your mother bought the car and/or perhaps when the engine was painted blue.

A couple of other thoughts: (1) Does the car have dual exhaust? 442s had twice pipes. (2) Does the car have front and rear sway bars with boxed lower rear control arms? (3) Does the car have a chrome air cleaner (single snorkel for automatic transmission, open element for 4-spd)? (4) Are there any 442 emblems on the car (usually located in the front grille and on both front fenders between the wheel opening and the door) or any sign that they were previously there (perhaps removed and holes filled when the car was painted)? (5) Does the car have a louvered hood?

Look for a machined pad at the front of the right cylinder head. That is the engine unit number and it should tell us a few things as well. It should start with a letter, then 4 numbers, and then two letters.

I'm curious as to what kind of transmission you have (automatic or manual). There are signs on each that might indicate the car is a 442.

It's basically your own research and input you can provide that will give you the answers you want. This site is an outstanding resouce to get those answers. My so-called "expertise" lies more in the '68-'69 range but there are a lot of people here that know '67s frontwards and backwards.

I know what you mean about PHS. I have a '70 GTO and PHS gave me everything I wanted to know about my car, and more. But, with Oldsmobiles, you are on your own!

Regardless of the result of your research, you do have a fine car. An Olds Supreme convertible or 4-4-2, equipped as yours is, will capture the attention of any Olds fanatic (like me) or any convertible lover (and there are lots of those people out there!). I look forward to future posts as to what is determined with your car.

Randy C.

 

I would say that it is a Turnpike Cruiser, 400 ci with 300hp 2bbl. The carb and intake have been changed to a four bbl setup. A turbo 400 auto transmission would be std. and I believe the only transmission for the Turnpike option. In 1967 this package was not a 442, as it was in 1968 and 1969.

 

To answer a few questions, the car has dual exhaust, I have what I believe is the original carb and it is a quadrajet. I will have to get under it and look at the control arms and check the sway bars. I haven't looked at the transmission pan yet, but behind the carb is what I believe is the actuator for the electric kickdown (no detent cable anywhere, should be a TH400). No sign of any 442 badging. I have pics somewhere of the car before my mother had it painted and the are C/S emblems on the fenders. Currently there are only Cutlass emblems on the fenders, the body shop supposedly lost the C/S emblems when the car was painted. The holes are still there in the fenders. There is also a C/S emblem on the trunk lid.

 

I know in 68 the 442 cars vin start with 344, not sure if its the same in 67, may want to check that out. But 442 was a line from 68 to 71 i believe and an option in all other years so keep looking. Im sure someone on here will better identify your car.

Post pics

 

Like previously posted it's probably a turnpike cruiser. Very early 67 400 engines had B heads,so it's possible it could have a B & C head,unusual but possible. The very early 67 cars had 66 A/C systems also. Some 65 442's had B heads also. There's a 66 somewhere in CA. that has a 400 engine and I will check with Curt Anderson about that. That's very unusual because the turnpike cruiser was not available in 66.

 

Correct. Okay, we all know now that in '67 the 400 *was* available in something other than the 442 (which itself was an option on and only on the Cutlass Supreme).

Correct, so this also lends more credibility to the likelihood that the intake and carb were also changed.
At this point it appears to be a Turnpike Cruiser. Unusual in itself especially as a convertible.

3 questions that may help clear this up any further:
1. What (if any) engine codes are on the heads? (located on the machined pad on the same end of head that the B and C is)
2. What is the build date of the car? (on the firewall data plate)
3. What is the axle code stamped on the rear axle tube? (on the rear of the the passenger side tube about 8" from the center casting, possibly upside down)

 

Any 66 f85 or Cutlass sedan or coupe could be order with a 400 but only by a law enforcment agency.
Would include all 442 suspension items and heavy duty transmissions. Did not include any 442 apperance items.

Mike I have some #'s to share with you about a early B/C 400.

Henry

 

It's not. Only 1968-1971 model years used the unique VIN for the 442. Earlier cars that were NOT built in Fremont did get a 4V or 5V on the cowl tag. Unfortunately, Fremont cars didn't even get that.

 

2 speed tranny's have electronic kickdowns as well

 

Interesting car none the less, I'm interested in seeing where this one goes. Welcome aboard the C/O and please do post pics

 

One important thing to remember about our oldsmobiles is rare does not necessary mean valuable. Example my old 1970 3 speed stick 442 one of a few made that was almost impossible to sell.

Lee

 

OP said he thinks he has the original carb. Is it a 2 BBL? Would it have been for TP Cruiser in '67?

 

here's something i found which refers to the tranny setup options and standard engine for 66-67:

and this from another site:

and this about the 442 option, seems it was only offered in 67 though:

here is the engine casting number identification, showing your engine is a 400ci. scroll down a bit, it seperates big blocks and small blocks....

http://442restoration.homestead.com/...gine_Info.html

are you sure this car isn't a 67??? it seems like the convertible supreme was not offered in 66 from what i am reading, i'm not a guru however....

 

From the OP:


And the only automatic transmissions available in 1967 were the Jetaway and the TH400, both of which used an electric kickdown.

 

duh!!!! i was thinking 66 the whole time...i'll stop thinking now!!!

here are few other pages i found interesting in my search:

http://www.oldsmobility.com/old/67biography.htm

http://www.oldsmobility.com/old/true442.htm

http://home.c2i.net/terjekl/main.htm

http://home.c2i.net/terjekl/main.htm

http://home.c2i.net/terjekl/ule3.htm

http://oneownercollectorcar.com/inde...ke-cruiser-mpg

P.S. his gear selection on the console should clarify what tranny he has if there's only 2 options that used electronic kickdown.

 

To the OP, Maybe post the numbers off the Q-jet. If the numbers come up with a 71 Buick, then that would lead further belief that it's a TP cruiser.

 

Data tag is as follows

1st line 01D S
2nd ST 67-33867 LAN3719
3rd 973-B L-2
4th EXS 2EXG
5th 5Y


There is no code stamped into the passenger side "C" head, on the back side of the drivers side "B" head is V201030G. Found what appears to be the casting date on the back of the block by the distributor. Either 306 or 308.

Transmission is a TH400

Rear axle is a 12 bolt, found a code stamped into the passenger side axle tube, looks to be "SC". Control arms are not boxed.

Still hunting for the carb, I know it's here somewhere. I will try to post pictures tonight. After spending some time getting acquainted with the underside of this car today, I found it is in pretty sound condition under there. Just some light scale on the diff and arms.

 

This verifies my previous statement. The V2 is a 67 code,the 66 code is V1 and the 65 code is V0. 66400 will also verify he has a 67 400 with a C & B head. The build date of 01D is very late for a 67 400 to come with a B head. The 1030 in the code means it was the 1,030 400 engine used. That doesn't mean it was the 1030 engine built,they built many engines in advance and they got out of sorts. In other words,this could have been one of the very first engines built and it got shuffled to the back of storage and was pulled out after later built engines were used.They were building cars,not show cars and used whatever they had,so I guess anything is possible.

 

You have some interesting things going on there.
The B head (which is a '66 model head) is definitely stamped with a '67 442 engine unit number, which by itself is a rarity. But the number is too small to be for the end of January build that the 01D indicates. So the B head at least does not appear to be original. The 306/308 ordinal date code for the engine is in line with the build date. So the engine does have all indications that it has been at least apart and somewhat changed, so a 4-bbl conversion from a 2-bbl is still a posssible occurrence.
The rear code SC is very common 3.08 open and not the 2.41 that could be found in the TPC. The lack of boxed arms and a sway bar means that pretty much the whole rear was changed if this were a TPC.
Enough has been altered that there is not enough evidence of anything to be reasonable sure how the car came originally.

 

I understand what you're saying Mike, but I should also point out that the engine unit number is *not* that of a TPC, but of a 442. Which considering the rest of the evidence doesn't look good to me that the B head is original to the car.

 

Just to put it succinctly:

A V2_____G engine is a 1967 400cid 10.25:1 4bbl 442 motor.

The Turnpike Cruiser 2bbl motor was V2_____ (with no "G").

Whether this head originally came with this engine (or this car) is another question.

- Eric

 

67 442 400 engine
Block cast date 200 July 19
B left side head 194 dash B July 13 1966
C right side head 206 C July 25
engine unit # V200399G
intake manifold date 227 Aug 15
right side exhaust manifold 151 May 31
left side exhaust manifold 165 June 14

Heads were cast 12 days apart.

Henry

 

OK,my bad,didn't know that the TPC 400 engine used a different code. I assumed that all of the 400 engines used a V prefix. Out of curiosity,what is the TPC prefix code? One thing is for sure,early 67 442 400 engines used B heads.

 

As I noted two posts above:

"A V2_____G engine is a 1967 400cid 10.25:1 4bbl 442 motor.

The Turnpike Cruiser 2bbl motor was V2_____ (with no "G")."

 

Should I start looking at date codes on the heads? Where are these? Did all 400 heads have the ports for the AIR tubes, whether it was a California model or not? Both heads on this car have the ports.

 

Got it,thanks.

 

And something else to remember. This is a 45 year old car. Back in the 60s and 70s and even 80s, no one was concerned with number matching or keeping it original. If it broke, it got fixed with parts that were available and worked. Many times, if an engine went bad or got tired, a used engine was substituted rather than rebuilding the original one. That's not a put down of the car, because it sounds like a nice car with desirable options. Enjoy it!

 

I know this much as to the history, as long as my mother and I have owned this car, which dates back to the late 70's, nothing has been changed except for the intake. She had this done back when the car was restored, mainly to give the engine compartment a fresher look. I put the Holley on, which was to get the car in running condition. The Q-jet needed rebuilt.

 

Sounds like a really cool car, remember though as others have said, back then it was a used car. By the late 70s it was already a 10 year old car, many of these cars had blown engines or bad heads within the first few years.

 

OK, here's the good, the bad, and the ugly. Keep in mind that these were taken right after the car had been pulled from 10 years of storage. It had only recieved a quick wash at the time. Since then, the seats have been pulled and the interior completely cleaned. Next comes the engine compartment, because as you can see, it's a mess.

Hopefully you can see this, it's the engine casting number.

P5180180.jpg

P5180182.jpg

P5180183.jpg

P5180181.jpg

 

Beautiful!

 

Beautiful, what a great car, congratulations.

 

Dude, love the tires, "Manhandler Radials"

 

If you are still guessing on the transmission, that switch pitch torque converter switch on the fire wall says Jetaway transmission. Looks just like the one on that used to be on my 65.

 

Nope, it's a Turbo 400. I took a good look at the pan while I was under there getting info off the rear diff.

 

Those are classics right there, the tires alone should up the price.

 

Been following this, beautiful car. What got me at the set of pics, was the engine color. Then I reread when your mom got the car(late 70s), maybe the dealer didn't know much about the car, and just shot the engine with most available color, which at that time would have been corp. blue.