BSiegPaint

*****UPDATE in post #30 - I made a deal for the car and will pick it up in March or April - can't wait to get my baby back!*****

So... the "once in a lifetime" chance has come my way, but I need some objective help in establishing the value of my old car. Any input is appreciated. Good or bad, I sold the car to a close friend and he is willing to sell it back after 20 years. I understand that every opinion here is subjective and not legally binding lol. I am at a loss when it comes to this car and I don't want to let personal feelings get in the way of a smart decision. He has asked me to make him a "reasonable" offer that we can both be happy with. So here goes.

Here is the description, as best as I can recall, and I'll add a few pics that I have at the end:

1970 442 W-30 convertible, 4-speed, white with red stripes, white interior, sport steering wheel. The original options on the car include bucket seats, tilt wheel (no power!), 8-track tape player, convenience lighting. I have the build sheet from under the back seat.

I originally bought the car in 1982 without the original motor, but I believe it still has the original transmission - maybe not. 3.91 rear gears. The motor in the car is "period correct", with F heads, an aftermarket W30 intake, and a restamp Rochester. I'm not sure about the distributor. I'm positive other original items like the alternator and water pump, etc. are not with the car. The motor was professionally rebuilt 15 years ago to original specs and has around 2,000 miles on it. The car is driven occasionally and has been garage stored. Original mileage on the car is 103,000. It was repainted in 1984 and has not been touched since. The paint is a 25-footer and it will need to be completely stripped and redone. I know that the rear quarters above the wheel openings were cut out and replaced with steel, then bondo'ed to shape - I have pics of the car being stripped completely and repaired in '84. The front fenders did not have any rust that I remember.

The original air cleaner and parts are with the car, and the hood will need its second rebuild, as the car has a propensity for running into the back of other cars. The driver side fender was replaced prior to 1982. I'm not sure if it has the original red fender wells now or not. When I had the car, one was black and the other red one was painted black - likely from when the one fender was replaced.

The car will likely need a new interior, but the seats may be good enough to save. They are discolored somewhat. The back seat is original, the fronts were recovered in the 80's. The door panels were cut for speakers long, long ago, and will need replacing. For sure it needs carpet, and it will need a new top.

It was originally a Kansas City car, spent 1993-1998 in North Carolina, and has been in central Texas ever since. I don't expect any frame or other rust surprises.

It's the car that I never should have let get away, but realistically, it will always be a driver while I have it. It's something to have fun with and drive around local car get togethers. It will never have the original motor, but I can make the car a high number 3 condition with moderate effort.

What is your opinion of a reasonable purchase price range? Again, thanks for any input. There is no rush.

Cincinnati Rick

4-Speed W-30 convertible! Cool car. Hope the experts on here can give you some thoughts on value and you're able to bring it back home. Following to see what everyone thinks. Good Luck!

70W-32

Considering its a driver and not 1000 point restore, I'd think $70 to $80k. Unless youre getting the friends and family discount. 1970 4 spd convert W30s, fully restored with all the correct parts have been selling in the $150 to $225k range over the last 5 years.

RetroRanger

im not up on W30 values at all. But if it was an older restored 442 convertible it might get 15 - 30. So add w30 on top of that.

IMO this is the best kind of w30 its documented, but in driver condition! If it were me buy it drive enjoy it, later on sell as a documented w30 older restore.

Fun71

I wondered when you said you had the build sheet on a Lansing built W car. Your picture shows the broadcast card, not the build sheet.

4+4+2=10

I think 50 - 60 K is all the money. The car needs most everything.

Diego

Omigod....a white/red car? That's damn rare.

It's my favorite color combo in many ways but then I fell in love with white/blue for some reason....

OLDSter Ralph

Talk to your friend and have him throw out a price. You each know what he paid you. Both front fenders have been replaced, there is a very noticeable gap in the right rear above the bumper. I would guess in the $30,000 range. Good luck.

35tac

If it were me I would have the owner make the first move. Surely you have a number estimate on what it will take to restore. Good luck and keep us informed if you don't mind..

Wayne

BSiegPaint

I enlisted the help of another close friend to be an active intermediary through this. The problem is that the work he did on this car started with the motor, and he spent money on reproduction parts. Technically, they're worthless (yet he has receipts, right?). We'll see. I have some messages out to a few in the hobby that I hope will hep me come to a number that suits us both. He wants to see me have it and restore it, but he may also have an unrealistic expectation of the current value. After just wrapping up the Rallye, I have a real good idea of what this will take. The Rallye took three years off and on, and it started off as a really decent car. It's interesting to be talking about one of the cars I have listed in my signature... and I'm hoping this isn't a "be careful what you wish for" situation.

jaunty75

What did he pay you for it, and how does the condition of the car now compare to the condition when you sold it to him?

This changes everything. The car will never be original. It will never be numbers matching.

In the condition you describe, if it were all original, it would be worth about $50,000. Without the original motor, though, it's worth less. $30,000? $40,000? It somewhat depends on what he paid you as I'm guessing he will at least want back what he paid for it, inflation-adjusted, unless the car has deteriorated in the time he's owned it.

OldSoldier

This is a 1 of 96 1970 W30 convertible 4 speed car, my guess is he will want more than $30-40K for it, even without the original engine.

jaunty75

It has lost its original engine. Therefore, the "it's one of ____" argument has lost meaning because it's no longer one of those 96 cars. It WAS, but it isn't any more.

He may want more than $40K, but what he wants and what the car is worth aren't necessarily the same thing. I wouldn't overpay for the car just because the seller is a friend.

BSiegPaint

That's where I'm at, Jaunty. He does know what it is. He HAS spent money on it. But he's spent money poorly. And it's in significantly worse condition that what it was 27 years ago when I sold it to him, other than the motor internals. I'm going to send him a detailed offer later this evening and we will see if we're in the ballpark. I really believe he would like me to have it back, and I think it would be fair to offer what he gave me (inflation adjusted) plus an amount similar to what he has spent on maintenance and improvements over the years. But it's a car that literally exists only on paper, since the original engine is gone. The high dollar W-30's that have gone across the blocks recently are stellar examples with low miles or perfect restorations. This is neither. I don't want it to go to anyone else, obviously - it's MY car! hahaha - but if he decides to get more money somewhere else, I'll go buy a '68 Hurst and be thrilled with it for similar $$. It seems the practical amount would be under the 40 mark, maybe closer to the mid 30's. It will start the conversation, at least. Thank you for your - and everyone else's - insights and thoughts.

jaunty75

Sounds like you have a good handle on this. Keep us posted. We, of course, want to know how this turns out!

scrappie

Good luck!
Sad thing is he could put it on ebay and possibly have a bidding war? who knows?
That car as is and if it had the orig motor I'm gonna say $75k-$100k
Without the original motor as is $45k-$55k
Still has pretty good docs and 4spd w-30 conv in unique color combo.
Dont know the exact condition but if you bought it for 45k, put another 25k in resto work I think the car would be worth 70k? JMO of course
Let us know

alain

I will be blunt hopefully not out of line
This car is worth what you are willing to pay or somebody else is willing to pay.
Always remember it is a box of surprise or more bluntly a pig in a blanket
This is said not to offend anybody but if you buy it is your with all the warts
It will be an outstanding W car once restored .How deep do you want to go?
With respect to all
Alain

Andy

Keep us posted, heck looks like the passenger rear quarter huge gap may need a new rear quarter or cut and repositioned. Very cool car, but your on the money asfar as I am concerned..Emotional purchases are always overpaid.Sounds like you have a handle on it.

jaunty75

Ah yes, the same banality trotted out by someone every time there's a what's-this-car-worth thread.

But it doesn't help someone to know if he's paying a fair price. That's why he'd like to know the market and know what similar cars have sold for.

alain

The answer is how passionate are you about the project
We can only guide or suggest ?
This is just an opinion Because restoring a W car can be an emotional journey for whatever reason.
Bet of luck in your quest hope you succeed
Alain

Bigmikey65

Very nice car - sounds like you shouldn’t let it slip away. I would be curious to see if the car had its original tranny. Although the motor does not match if it still had its numbers matching tranny that would add some extra value to me.

Andy

BSieg, here is the deal, as Biden would say..lol.. ok skip politics.. anyway, you owned this car, how bad do you want it back? If you have done pretty good on the financial front over the years then if you pay a little more than its worth to have it back, its truly only money.. you will be kicking yourself another time for letting it go. Talk to the guy, tell him what it needs but you really want it back, make-a decent offer of starting at 40k, he will go from there because not every guy/ gal has 40k to offer. In the end you will know where the nut cracks for both of you..then you do or you don’t buy it..but don’t look back if you don’t. Hope it works out for you. Once you get it if you look long enough, you will find a period correct engine if you so desire. Such an iconic piece of olds history..take that into consideration..

Cosmic Charlie

Just a thought

Take the price you sold the car to him for 20 years ago, ON Top of That - then add $10,000 (good deal for you) to $20,000 (good deal for him).

You were a good guy and sold him the car ... how much profit does he expect to make off a friend that sold him the car ? $10 -20 K sounds like plenty to me.

Andy

Cosmic Chas, no offense my friend but 10-20 k will **** the guy off so bad he would unfriend you. Not buying a w30 drop top in this average at best condition for 20 k

Cosmic Charlie

I wrote $10-20 K ON TOP of the sale price 20 years ago

scrappie

Has a period correct engine.

WTHIRTY1

That’s a six figure car restored regardless of the block. I think anything under $50k for the car, as it sits, would be a steal for you.

70W-32

Someone has a 1970 W30 4speed low mile motor in the parts for sale section. I think they want $15K

83hurstguy

x2. The lack of original block hurts, but it has a broadcast card, the four speed could potentially be numbers matching to the car, and it's a great color combo. Four speed W30 converts are rare.

BSiegPaint

THANK YOU to everyone who had some input here, and to a few who I have chatted with offline. I was able to make a deal on the car tonight and will bring it back to Ohio in March or April. I remember the car inside and out, and it has a long way to go to be a nice driver, but it will be one that I will certainly enjoy again. I know myself and I'm sure I'll go a bit crazy on this car - but only to the point where I'm not afraid to drive it. I'm most appreciative of WTHIRTY1 who has laid out so much information in deep detail over the past few years as he assembles his W-31. That info will be invaluable as I move forward with this car. I've learned a lot with my Rallye 350 revamp over the past three years, and I'm ready for the next challenge!

OH! And my signature below will change as I remove the '70 W-30 Convertible from the "gone but not forgotten" list....!

no1oldsfan

I agree with so many comments on this thread. Super cool SUPER rare car. Manual steering is a crazy non option. Four speed. Manual steering. Manual brakes. W-30 convertible. White red stripes... Get outta here. Please post as many pictures as you can.

WTHIRTY1

Congrats! Such a good story and a very cool W-car. Very excited for you to take possession of your old car.

Koda

My dad has an everything manual car from the 70s he still drives to shows. He's about to be 76, and his complaints are not seeing out the rag top at night and he can't wear thick soled shoes (his feet are bothering him a bit) to feel the pedals. Point being, an all manual car is fun while you're in shape, so enjoy it until you can't.

joesw31

Congratulations!

Stefano

Yes, congrats on getting your old car back : )

Very Kool W-30. With approx only 96 ever produced it is the high water mark RPO Oldsmobile collector Muscle Car. There are less than 30 existing examples considered by those who keep track of them, to be authentic.

If your going to wait on getting into the restoration, this would be the type of Car that we could show / display at MCACN 2021 in the Barnfind and Hidden Gems display.

I'd just get it mechanically rightous and clean it up a bit and drive the heck out of it, at least for now, before jummping in on a frame off resto.

Bashton

Congrats! Great to hear your patience and persistence paid off. Just goes to show that sometimes things are supposed to happen, for whatever reason!

As Stefano stated, we would LOVE to have you join us at the Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals show, November 20-21. In addition to being able to show the car to people that would truly appreciate what it is and the story of your re-acquisition, the amount of Oldsmobile knowledge that is in the building will be great for you for the future restoration.

Hope you will consider joining us.

BTW; in 2019 we had "The Twins" in our Barn Finds & Hidden Gems area. Miller Auto is handling the restoration of this matching pair of Gold 1970 W30's, one hardtop and one convertible, and will be Officially Unveiling them with us in November, fully restored.

Thanks;

Bashton
MCACN Managing Member

BSiegPaint

Bob, that is an incredible offer, and I don't think that I could possibly turn that down. If you want to send me a note via PM, I'll send you my contact info and we can get into the particulars, etc. I still have a couple months before I'll get the car in my hands, but it's running and driving, last I heard...!

Bob

KeithHurstOlds

Congratulations! Loving the story so far. Hearing the back story and hearing your passion to get it back home was cool. And then Boom! You are going to bring it home! “Cars are Cool, but the people and their stories make them Really Cool” Can’t wait to hear and see more
I would definitely recommend taking it this November to the greatness muscle car show in the world. MCACN Muscle Car And Corvette Nationals
As Bob mentioned above, we took “The Twins” two 70 W30’s both Burnished Gold, one coupe and one convertible to MCACN 2019 to the Barn Find and Hidden Gem Area. We will “Unveil” them this coming November at MCACN 2021. Let me know if you need any more information or help with this.
Good luck getting her home

35tac

Bob, I will be looking forward to pictures. Some day hopefully I will be able to see a W30 near me. Glad everything is working out.

Wayne

BSiegPaint

Wayne, I think we need to have a local Olds meet up when I get her here...