I bought my 72 Cutlass/442 w/a 4bbl 350 in May and I'm going to give it an oil change this weekend.

I plan on using standard 10W40 (probably Mobil 1 or Royal Purple);
Standard oil filter, probably Fram;
Standard air filter, probably Fram;
Replace leaking transmission pan, filter, and gasket from Summit Racing;
Change rear-end gear oil (I think it calls for Limited Slip oil??- I'll probably use Mobil 1).

Tune-up is next weekend, probably.

Any thoughts on the above. Am I missing anything??? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I don't want to do anything wrong to the car, I love it. I would take a bullet for it. Thanks.

Edit - its got really squeely rear drum brakes, I'm going to clean the shoes/pads front and back and check the thickness.

 

For cripes sake, it's an oil change, not heart surgery!

Just change the oil and be done with it. All of those things you suggest would have been perfectly fine back in 1972 and are perfectly fine now. The synthetic oil wouldn't have been available, so you would have used the good old regular stuff. Either will work fine.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

 

If you are still running a flat tappet cam make sure whatever oil you decide on using it has the correct levels of ZDDP or you will have an engine failure. I don't know about Mobil 1 but Royal Purple's HPS or XPR lines have higher levels of ZDDP. I use Brad Penn Racing oil in my '68 442 and have had no issues. As for oil and air filters I prefer Purolator.

 

Who peed in your Cheerios? He is asking for suggestions in case he forgot something? Synthetic has been around since the early 1970s. We have been using in aircraft before that.

 

This is a little melodramatic.

How do I know if I have a flat tappet cam? I certainly haven't heard of a rash of engine failures among old car enthusiasts because they haven't been checking their oil for the right level of ZDDP. How do I even know what IS the right level of ZDDP?

I've been putting Quaker State or something else on sale in my '67 and '73 for the last several years, and I've yet to experience an engine failure.

 

Get a life. How do you "forget something" changing the oil? Oil and filter. Not too difficult. Air filter, too? Gosh, now you're really complicating things. Let me get a pencil.

 

If you've got an engine from before the '80's, and you don't have an empty, painful spot where your wallet used to be, you've got a flat tappet cam.

+1.

ZDDP (zinc) is good, but it is most important during initial cam break-in.
A motor with many miles on it should do fine with minimal, or no ZDDP - as Jaunty has pointed out
Even though there HAVE been a rash of high-lift cam failures in NEW cams over the last few years (seems like it's the only subject of discussion on a certain Chevelle site sometimes), there have NOT been similar failures of ordinary cams in older running engines.

If you can get an "off-road" oil with some zinc in it, so much the better, but don't sweat it.
The diesel oils had had good levels of zinc, but I read somewhere in the past few months that they've got less now, thanks to the latest "clean diesel" heavily-managed engines.

To paraphrase Jaunty (who seems to object to his Cheerios being too salty),
"Don't worry, be happy!" and don't sweat the small stuff in an engine with tolerances that wouldn't be suitable for a tractor engine in the 21st century.

- Eric

 

Actually there are a few things to consider. Newer oils dont have much zinc in them anymore because of cat converters like the older stuff used in flat tappet cars, as a stock 72' surely is. Valvoline markets a line of racing oils with higher zinc content, including syn, so maybe worth looking into. You can get bottles of zinc additive, but best getting an oil formulated that way from the beginning. For the rear posi, careful of adding little bottles of friction modifier to quiet down clutch plate lock up noise, as tends to take away lots of the posi action too. You can always add it later. Corvette Forum member "Billla"(yes 3 L's) is a master engine builder, and can tell you all about motor oils for older cars, and posts a list.

 

My point exactly! Thank you.

We can think about things, and then we can overthink about them. Let's try to avoid the latter.

 

+1 on running an oil with ZDDP. As mentioned, valvoline VR1 does. I have personally experienced flat tappet cam failures due to this. Also, I would run very far away from using anything made by Fram. Look for Wix or Napa Gold.

 

just my 2 cents and 48 yrs of experience:

I use Penzoil 10W/30 cause I bought 2 cases (12 qts per case) at a low low prices several yrs ago. I add one bottle of ZDDP brand additive ($9.95 each) at every oil change in my 70' F-85 W-31 high dollar rebuilt engine. NO problems.

I have a lot and I mean a lot of experience and knowledge about the API (American Petroleum Industry) book on oils, as it was a big part of my career as a Fleet Manager of both gas and diesel vehicles.

ZDDF not only adds zinc, but also phospate, and a small amount of sulfur which are both lubricants. Zinc is the main element for metal to metal contact, which protects the cam to bottom of the lifter from high wear levels.

I would check the price of products like Royal Purple and othe brands that have the additive added for older hyd. flat tappit cam equipped engine versus a lower priced name brand oil and add the ZDDP additive. In my area Royal Purple is $10 same as Brad Pen Racing. I use 7 qts. at $1.78 per qt. ($12.46) plus $9.95 for one bottle of ZDDP = $ 21.41. 7 qts of RP or BPR is $70 dollars!!!!!!!

If I were you I would not, repeat not use Fram brand filters. Period

How I rate filter brand with the better ones first and then asending to lower grade:

Fleet Guard
Baldwin
Motorcraft (Ford)
A/C Delco (GM) Recently sold re-poped A/C oil filters. do'nt know who is making'em
Mobil 1
Puralator (Gold)
Carquest
NAPA (which is made by Wix)
Wix
Fram

OK, flame awayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

 

I agree with all of the above except I'm not 100% convinced the additive bottle is the same as having the oil engineered with it in there. I might be wrong, but Valvoline VR1 conventional is cheap, so that's what gets put in my jeep. You can't get that out here, so I do the ZDDP additive thing in the Cutlass.

About Wix, why dont you like them? Every review I've ever seen had them near or at the top, and always Fram dead last. I have personally seen 3 Fram oil filters burst, one killing the motor. Not to mention what you see when you cut one open and compare. Fram is garbage.

 

No way, thanks for a very informative post

 

Valvoline VR1 oil and Napa gold filter for me please.

 

I agree with basically everything that Dave B. said, but I would say that in a well-broken-n original motor, while it is probably helpful to use some ZDDP in general, it shouldn't matter in any given specific oil change.
If you've got ZDDP oil or additive available for a reasonable price, then use them.
If not, then don't lose a minute's sleep over skipping them.

Recent rebuilds or new cams are, of course, an entirely different story, especially if high lift / high spring pressure.

I think I'll stop now - this is turning into another oil argument .

- Eric

 

Thanks for the input.

My deepest apologies to Jaunty for upseting him.

 

I am baseing rating of brand of filter on independent tests and studies of the amount of microns needed to filter the bad stuff, ability to not go in to by-pass mode at low pressure resistance, and the type of media used. Also, some incorperate a drain back valve.

 

Is an "anti-spin" rear end the same as posi. Is it the same as "limited slip"?
Thx.

 

Yup

 

Guess the Oil War is over.

FWIW, A now posi rear end is referred to as a "open carrier" or a "peg leg" [in the vernacular]

 

For what it's worth, which I'm sure won't be much, for the last 40 years, for every car I've ever changed the oil myself on, I've always just bought whatever name-brand oil filter was on sale. Fram, STP, AC, Wix, Purolator, whatever, and I've never had any problems.

I appreciate davebw31's comments, but I think statements like his "I would not, repeat not use Fram brand filters" are just unnecessarily alarmist. I don't use any particular brand exclusively, so perhaps if I had used only Fram for 100,000 miles, there'd be a problem. But no single filter is on any of my cars for more than 3,000 miles. It hardly seems that that's enough to destroy an engine.

Another request. If people are going to make these horror story-sounding comments, like davebw31's above or 69goatpgh's "or you will have an engine failure", please back these comments up.

WHY would you never use a Fram filter? WHY will I have an engine failure? Is the engine going to fall out of the car? Will it explode? Will it seize up? Will the head gasket blow off? Will a gun come out of it and shoot me in the head?

Give me something to go on here instead of just making me think I need to get General Absolution from the nearest priest every time I get in my car.

 

Jaunty, if you are happy with Fram oil filters, just keep on using them. Opinions are like [insert body part here], everyone has one. After doing a fair amount of research, I too believe Fram to be poorly designed and poorly made.The choice is yours to make and you don't have to take anyone's advice, however well intended.

 

I'm perfectly willing to take people's advice, especially if it's drastic advice ("my advice is do this or your engine will fail"), if it's backed up with facts or some kind of evidence or personal experience. Otherwise, it's just hearsay.

Good intentions aren't enough. If people are telling me to change the way I live my automotive life, I have to know why.

Especially these doomsday comments like I mentioned above. Those REALLY have to have something backing them up, or they're just another "the sky is falling" comment.

 

I have read information and seen pictures that lead me to believe that orange Fram filters are not as well made as other brands. Before seeing that information, though, I had used Fram filters at various times on a wide variety of cars (they're cheap, and so am I) and never had a problem with them.

Also, in over thirty years of driving, I have never had or heard of a catastrophic failure of a Fram or any other oil filter in any car of mine, or of any friends or family members.

So, while I'll probably avoid Fram filters when I can (I've probably got a few on the shelf, and I'm not throwing them out), I agree that some of the things people say sound pretty alarmist, based on everything I've personally experienced. Presenting clear evidence or research would be a better way to go than presenting alarmist blanket statements.

Also, when it comes to research, outcomes-based data are FAR better than data that seem to suggest quality, but have no clear linkage to outcomes.
In other words, the folks whose sites I've seen who have diligently disassembled seemingly hundreds of oil filters to show us what's inside have done a great service, but just because a Fram filter looks like it's made of toilet paper doesn't necessarily mean that it wil perform differently in actual use. It is possible that even though they use a different manufacturing technique, their product is no weaker than a more traditional design. We can think of other places where this is true, such as all those crappy new cars that are made out of plastic, but that will allow you to walk away from a crash that would have killed you in one of our cars.
In general, I will take the advice of someone like Dave B., an experienced fleet manager, because he has had a chance to see the results of using various products over the lifetimes of many engines, which, if you think about it, is the important thing.

- Eric

 

Thank you, Eric.

If everyone can present their advice, here's mine, and it's based on almost 40 years of changing the oil on several dozen different vehicles over that time.

Use whatever damn oil filter is on sale that week at Wal-Mart along with whatever damn oil is on sale, even if both are house brands. Just make sure it says "meets OEM specifications" or something like that on the side of the box and says "meets SG" or whatever letter they're up to now, which they all do. When changing the coolant, make sure it's ethylene glycol like it's supposed to be, that it says "meets OEM specifications" on the side, and then buy whatever's cheapest, even if it's the house Autozone or NAPA brand. Ditto all of the above for air filters, fuel filters, PCV valves, and a dozen other things.


Davebw31 certainly has lots of experience with fleet vehicles, but let's remember that word. "Fleet." These are vehicles driven constantly and that get many thousands, and perhaps many hundreds of thousands, of miles on them, perhaps over a very short time period. Differences between oil filter brands and their effect on vehicle longevity might certainly show up over that much driving and that many vehicles.

But my cars are collector cars. They get, at most, 1000 to 2000 miles on them a year. In the old "change the oil every three months or 3,000 miles" rubric, I reach 3 months WAY before I reach 3,000 miles. So when I'm changing the oil and filter on my cars, the oil and filter that I am replacing often still look (and smell) new.

I think the advice that may be practical and applicable to one situation has to be considered carefully before being applied in a blanket way to every situation.

Of course I want my engines to last a long time and run well. But the question here is not "don't you want to do what's best for your engine," as many might be asking themselves. Of course I do. But that doesn't mean I want, or need, gold-plated oil filters and motor oil that was handed down from above. The REAL question is, "is what I am doing now harming my engine?" I think the answer to that question is no.

 

So I went with Penzoil conventional high mileage 10W40 because it was on sale. I went with the advice of most on this forum, and a few articles that I read last night, and skipped the Fram filter. Went with the Bosch premium, that is made by Purolator. Seems to have gotten pretty good reviews.

The rear brake shoes looked good. Dirty, but plenty of shoe left. The drums were dirty, but in good shape. The drums were stamped made in China. Probably why they were squeeking some much. After a thourough cleaning, sprayed some "no squeal" on the drums, hopefully this cures the squeals.

THE PROBLEM IS I CAN'T GET THE DAMN TRANSMISSION PAN OFF. It looks like the PO put a sh!tload of black RTV sealant on the pan. I could probably hang on it and wouldn't budge.

I just started wedging a screw driver between the pan and the housing and am kind of wedging and scraping away at it. Took me about a frickin hour to get three fricking inches of the pan freed.

 

That's too bad about the pan gasket. Adhesive should not be used at all in my experience. I would just slowly and carefully try to get everything off because you don't want to bend the pan or create any screwdriver gouges in either the pan or the surface it mates with.

When you go to replace the gasket, or at least as I did it when I replaced the fluid in my two old cars over the summer, I just laid the new gasket on the pan and pushed all of the screws up through the holes in both the pan and the gasket. The gasket has to be stretched a bit to get it to cover the holes, and the screws hold it in place while the gasket holds the screws in place.

Then I just pushed the pan up against the bottom of the transmission and started tightening by hand several of the bolts. Once a few were in a few turns, the pan would stay in place, and I could go around the pan first with my fingers and then with a torque wrench to tighten them down properly. I didn't see any kind of a diagram in the manual regarding the order in which to tighten them, so I just did it in kind of a star pattern until all were properly tight. No leaks in either case since.

Again, I wouldn't use adhesive. It's the compression of the gasket between the two surfaces from properly tightened bolts that does the sealing. If you use adhesive, it'll just be the same pain in the *** you're experiencing now for the next time you or somebody else wants to change the fluid.

 

i wonder where the k&n oil filters would land in the rankings... any opinions?

 

Took about another 90 minutes of prying, but I finally got the pan off. It looks like the PO used a pan gasket and SMOTHERED the top and bottom of the gasket in RTV. Its an absolute mess. You can't really tell from this picture, but believe me, its a frickin mess. Quite a bit of the RTV is still stuck to the transmission housing. Going to go start scraping it off. I'm just glad that I got the pan off. I have a nice new aluminum one from summit with reinforced bolt holes and nice clean new gasket. NO RTV!!!!!!!! Hopefully this cures the leak.

 

I found this posted in another thread by LADYNROB. I dont know how to link to the thread, so I just copied and pasted what he posted. I thought these articles were very informative and helpful regarding filters.

"Here is an in depth study of oil filters...
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/index.html

Here are the final opinions from the tester:
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oil.../opinions.html

 

I am baseing on 5,000 mile changes , gas, and 15,000 mile changes on oil and filter changes, not 3,000 mile changes. Anyone who changes their oil every 3,000 miles is bending to the propaganda of the TV adveritizing industry commercial industry! They want you to buy their oil and filters. Oil now is far superior than 30 yrs.ago. Especially if you are using a product like Mobil 1. Of course I change the oil in my W-31 every 12 mnths because of time and in my motorhome I change based on mileage, only because I drive it that far every year. I drive my 97' Honda Accord EX every 5,000 and change the oil and filter, it does not use much oil (about 1/2 quart per 5,000 miles) and it has 150,000 miles and still gets 30 mpg with the air on like it did when new!

 

With a name like Fram it's got to suck.

 

Yeah, right.

 

I don't believe this at all. I'm well aware of the oil and filter change interval recommendations on new cars. The owner's manual for my '09 Nissan Altima says to change it every 3,750 miles, which amounts to twice every 7,500. The recommended service interval for the '05 Ford Freestyle I once owned is every 5,000 miles, just as you say.

But old habits die hard. I like the fact that the oil and filter on my daily drivers are replaced often. I like to have my tires rotated every 6,000 miles, which works out nicely to every other oil change.

Plus, I can get the service done at my local Firestone store for less than I can do it myself. They charge about $23 for an oil change, but they will give you $10 (not 10%, but ten dollars) off of this for simply charging it to your Firestone credit card, which I have.

I can't do any oil change myself for $13.00. Also, I bought my tires at Firestone, and, if you do that, you get lifetime free rotations, something that costs about $20 normally anywhere else. So for $13 I can get an oil and filter change and tire rotation. Not bad, in my opinion. And certainly no "TV advertising industry" (whatever that is) is getting rich off of me. I don't ever recall a TV commercial telling me how often to change my oil.

 

If you can get your oil changed for $13, then what the heck, change it every 1,000 miles .

That option is not open to me, however, ever since some unknown oil change monkey destroyed the oil pan on my BMW.
I used to bring any of my cars in for "QuickLube"-type changes if it happened to be convenient at the moment, especially the BMW, which I have to jack up and take the wheel off of to get to the drain plug, until a few years ago when one of the guys called me down to the pit and showed me that the filler hole in the aluminum pan was stripped and cracked lengthwise to way past the threads, rendering it impossible to seal.
Whether the guy before him stripped it, or the guy before that, or even the guy who showed it to me (smooth strategy), I'll never know.
I was able to JBWeld the crack, and now the plug needs a new coat of RTV every time I change the oil in order to seal, and reminds me every few months that I will NEVER get my oil changed by anyone other than me again.

- Eric

 

Why not every 10?

You gotta draw a line somewhere.

I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience. Those quickie-lube places make me a little nervous, too, but I've never had a bad experience at one. On the other hand, these guys do pretty much nothing but change oil, and you would think they would see nearly every kind of car and every kind of situation in the course of their work.

 

You just can't buy entertainment like this!!!!!

 

Educational, too.

 

The point is, you can't take at face value anything you hear when it comes to these extreme claims.

Comments like "I would never put a Fram oil filter in my car" are fine as far as they go, but you also have to remember that there are hundreds of thousands if not millions of Fram oil filters in service in cars and trucks as I write this, and we're not seeing them all suffer from engine failures.

So let's temper this sort of "XXX will kill your engine" comment that you read in these forums from time to time with a little bit of reason and common sense.

And if you really know of a case where an engine failed and the failure can be traced right back to the particular choice of oil filter or anything else, let's have the details.

I'm from Missouri. Show me.

 

I go with Dave on this. Why even risk having a filter fail......no thanks I buy proven filters and oil too. Oil and filters are cheap compared to a new engine.

I've noticed at my local track that the engines grenaded, had Fram filters....coincidence?......I think not.