67Rocket

Do you guys know if a 330 with a manual trans. can be installed 63 F85 with a 215 V8 and manual trans. without a lot of modifications? Thanks!

joe_padavano

Depends on your definition of "without a lot of modifications". The 61-63 cars use an engine crossmember with the frame pads welded on. They are designed for Buick engines (the 215 is a Buick design). You'd need to cut them off and weld on mounts appropriate for an Olds. The iron SBO weighs almost TWICE what the 215 weighs, all of it directly on the front wheels. Yeah, the 63 Tempest used an optional iron 326 Pontiac, but the trans was in the back, partly offsetting the weight. You'll need to find custom front springs, and of course the brakes would need to be upgraded. Also, these cars are very low and the exhaust is designed to run in the tunnel next to the driveshaft. This means that if you really want duals, the pipes must run under the floorpans, reducing ground clearance.

Personally, I'd go with a 4.6L Rover block. Actually, I AM. The Rover motor bolts in place of the 215 and a Buick 300 crank, with the right pistons, gives you just about 300 cu in. The lightweight car and engine means that you only need about 260-275 HP (easily doable) to have the same power-to-weight as a W-30. A much easier approach, in my opinion, and it doesn't screw up the suspension, steering, or anything else. It also looks nearly stock.

67Rocket

Thanks Joe, I am not a big fan of serious alterations to any car. Is the Rover engine you refer to from a Range Rover? What 4 speed trans. will work the 215? Same for the Rover?

Octania

Wow
Spot-on summary, JP

Koda

Does the range rover change look stock enough to blow someone's doors off and then look dumb and lie about it being stock?

joe_padavano

D&D sells a repro of the stock 215 bellhousing that bolts to any BOPR (Buick-Olds-Pontiac-Rover) aluminum block. All have the same bellhousing bolt pattern. The bellhousing accepts any GM-pattern 4spd (Muncie, T10, etc). The Rover and Buick 300 cranks have a different flange that requires the matching flywheel.

Well, almost. The Buick and Olds motors use different heads and valve covers. The Rover motors use the same head configuration as Buick. It is possible to adapt the Olds heads to the Rover block, but it takes some work (like converting the shaft-mount rockers to stud-mount and oiling through the pushrods instead of through the shafts). Most people use the Buick 300 aluminum heads since they have bigger ports, but those use the Buick valve cover configuration. The reality is that very few people know the difference between Olds 215 and Buick 215 heads and valve covers, so this may be a case of close-enough. I'm adapting the Olds heads to my Rover block, unless I can score a set of the aftermarket Merlin F85 heads made in England that look like Olds heads but have much bigger ports and valves. They aren't cheap.

Here are the Merlin heads:



Note that the valve cover mounting surface is parallel to the deck surface, same as the Olds 215 heads. On Buick/Rover heads, the valve cover mounting surface is at an angle and only uses four instead of five bolts.

This photo compares various Rover/Buick heads with Olds heads. Olds is third from left.



TA Performance also sells aftermarket heads for the BOPR engines:

67Rocket

Thanks again Joe, I remember my Dad had a 61 F85 with the 215 and he had overheating problems, It has been a long time ago but I think I heard someone talking about the aluminum block having issues (flaking). Does this sound correct? Does the block have cast sleeves?

joe_padavano

Yes, the blocks have steel sleeves. The GM blocks are cast-in sleeves. The Rover blocks are pressed in sleeves.

The overheating is common and was often caused by people unfamiliar with aluminum motors who ran straight water in the cooling system. Corrosion in the cooling passages ensued, followed by blockage and cooling problems.

I've had mine for six years now with no cooling issues whatsoever.

67Rocket

Do you think a cooling system flush and fresh fill with proper mix will solve this overheating issue. Probably need a radiator service to.

joe_padavano

If the block is corroded internally, it is unlikely that a flush alone will clean it out, but it doesn't hurt. Having the radiator boiled out or replaced is probably a good idea also.

1970-W30

Another option is to use a 64 Buick 300 engine, it will bolt in directly and all accessories such as alt, starter, power steering etc. from the 215 can be used and fit without modification. It also allows the use of any standard BOP bell housing. The factory 64 300 is a cast block with aluminum heads. Weight on the front end would go up by about 90 lbs., but half of that weight could be mitigated by using an aluminum radiator and moving the battery in the trunk. If that still isn’t enough, then a switch to a 340 Buick crank in the 300, which is a minimum modification install, and boring the block .050 to allow the use of standard late 307 Olds pistons, will get you an engine with 349 cubic inches (5.7 liter). The March 2011 Hot Rod magazine describes in detail how easy it is to mod a 300 Buick to get 390 horse on 91 octane gas. The test engine they built had over 400 lb/ft of torque from 3300 to 4800 RPM! Granted they ported the heads and used different valves, but even a drop of 50 horse with no head work would still be a HUGE improvement over any puny 215.
That would make for a very, very quick car as light as the 63 Cutlasses are.
Sheet metal work on the tunnel will be required, no doubt. And as far as the puny rear end holding up, that’s anyone guess…….