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I am unable to find a site that has production figures for 1968 Cutlass cruisers. I don't need exact, just looking to see if rare or not really. Thanks for directions.
His terminology threw me, as the "Cruiser" name is only used in the Standard Catalog of Oldsmobile when referring to the Vista Cruiser. The flat tops are listed under "Cutlass Series", and referred to as the "4-dr Sta Wag-6P".
His terminology threw me, as the "Cruiser" name is only used in the Standard Catalog of Oldsmobile when referring to the Vista Cruiser. The flat tops are listed under "Cutlass Series", and referred to as the "4-dr Sta Wag-6P".
You are correct. In the 1968 model year, it was still called the Cutlass wagon. It wasn't until the 1971 model year that the Cutlass Cruiser name was used for the flattop.
I suspect that since 1971 was the first year for the Custom Cruiser, having that and a Vista Cruiser (or technically, Vista-Cruiser with a hyphen ) made the Cutlass wagon look left out, hence the name change to Cutlass Cruiser.
Is this really true? I had heard a long time ago (back when these cars were new as my father bought new both a '71 and a '73 Custom Cruiser) that the clamshell-era Custom Cruisers were actually based on the 98. I might even have heard that from the Olds salesman at the dealership. At least, for model years 1971 through the first year of the downsizing in 1977, the Custom Cruiser had the same wheelbase as the 98. I don't know that this is necessarily related to whether or not that made the CC a B-body or a C-body, but I thought I'd mention it.
Is this really true? I had heard a long time ago (back when these cars were new as my father bought new both a '71 and a '73 Custom Cruiser) that the clamshell-era Custom Cruisers were actually based on the 98. I might even have heard that from the Olds salesman at the dealership. At least, for model years 1971 through the first year of the downsizing in 1977, the Custom Cruiser had the same wheelbase as the 98. I don't know that this is necessarily related to whether or not that made the CC a B-body or a C-body, but I thought I'd mention it.
Well, the style code for the Custom Cruiser is 6xxx series, just like a Delta. The style code for the Ninety Eight is 8xxx series.
The reality is, the B-body and C-body are the same except for wheelbase. From the front seat forward they are identical - the only difference is in the rear seat legroom.
Think about this. How is the difference between a 71-76 CC and a Delta any different than the difference between a 121" wheel base Vista and a 112" wheelbase Cutlass? As for the 1977-1990 cars, the downsized CC used the same 116" wheelbase as the Delta 88 in those years.
As for the 1977-1990 cars, the downsized CC used the same 116" wheelbase as the Delta 88 in those years.
True, but I was referring primarily to the clamshell-era CCs.
Let's look at a couple of other things that point to the these Custom Cruisers being based on the 98.
1. In the book Setting the Pace, the caption under the photos of the 1971 Oldsmobiles reads "...equally new Ninety-Eights, which gained a Custom Cruiser wagon..." I've reproduced this below. This wording suggests that the CC was based on the 98.
2. I always thought the biggest indicator of all that the CC was based on the 98 was the fact that, for all of the clamshell-era years, the taillights on the CC were the same as (or close to the same as) on the 98, not the 88.
1971 is a good example.
1972 was exactly the same.
For '73, the '98 got a taillight treatment that was different from the CC and more suggestive of what the '74 through '76 Custom Cruiser back ends would look like. More significantly, it looked nothing like the back end of a Delta 88.
The '73 Custom Cruiser retained the same tallights as the '71 and '72 models.
1973 98.
Taillights on a '74 Custom Cruiser. Looks a lot like those on the '73 98. '74 98 looked the same.
1974 98.
The '75 and '76 Custom Cruisers retained the same taillights as the '74 while the '75 and '76 98 taillight got a little more cathedral-looking.
So for all of the clamshell years, we have the CC and the 98 sharing the same wheelbase and sharing similar if not identical (for '71 and '72) taillight treatments. You can see how someone might come to think that they're related. Perhaps another indicator is that the '71 to '76 Custom Cruisers were never available with the 350 engine, which was exactly the same situation as with the 98 of those years. This is probably based more on weight than body style, but the clues start to add up.
Last edited by jaunty75; August 28th, 2019 at 01:57 PM.
True, but I was referring primarily to the clamshell-era CCs.
You said "through 1977". Maybe that was a typo.
Let's look at a couple of other things that point to the these Custom Cruisers being based on the 98.
You can look at anything you want, but the VIN is what determines an A, B, C-body, etc. The clamshell cars have B-body VINs. Nothing else matters. And frankly, the Ninety Eight is "based on " the Delta 88.
And just so we can finally stick a fork in this, here's an excerpt from the 1971 Fisher body manual. Note the "Delta Cruiser 88", Caprice wagons (35 and 35 body styles), and Bonneville wagons (also 35 and 45 styles) are all considered B-body cars by Fisher. I think they would know. I did not bother to copy the second page that had Buick on it.
No, it was not. I said "through '77" because the '77 Custom Cruiser continued to have the same wheelbase as the 98. It was starting in 1978 that the CC had the same wheelbase as the 88.
Thanks. You go with the Fisher Body Manual. I'll go with Helen Jones Earley.
Wrong on both counts. The 1977 Custom Cruiser had a 116" wheelbase, same as all other downsized B-body cars that year. Do you really believe that the 1977 CC in the first photo has a different wheelbase and different body panels than those on the 1978 CC in the second photo??? (Hint: all the body panels and the frame carry the same part numbers from 77 to 78). And you're saying that the plant that actually made the bodies is lying about which platform they were built on??? Not to mention the VINs? Denial isn't just a river...
Wrong on both counts. The 1977 Custom Cruiser had a 116" wheelbase, same as all other downsized B-body cars that year. Do you really believe that the 1977 CC in the first photo has a different wheelbase and different body panels than those on the 1978 CC in the second photo???
I was going by what it says in Setting the Pace. If there's a typo in there, shoot me.
I was going by what it says in Setting the Pace. If there's a typo in there, shoot me.
And yet, on that very page, the Custom Cruiser production numbers are included in the line that says "All B Models"...
In fact, since you want to quote those pages from Setting the Pace, scroll up to the 1976 production figures, or 1975, or 1971. In each case, the Custom Cruiser production numbers are included in the "All B Models" total. Are we done yet?
Wow, seriously? Proven wrong with your own documentation and you take your ball and go home.
I was not trying to PROVE anything. I was just trying to make conversation and point out a few ways in which the Custom Cruiser could have been considered a 98 version of a station wagon. Personally, I thought some of those ways (the dealer's comment back in the day, the wheelbase agreement, the rear-end treatments, the photo caption from the book) were quite legitimate. But you needed to take out a baseball bat and beat me into the ground with my errors. Fine. As I say, you have to win, and you did.
And, yes, I will take my ball and go home because, frankly, you're no fun to play with.
Last edited by jaunty75; August 28th, 2019 at 03:00 PM.
The "clamshell" nickname, which is really not accurate, comes from the way the rear end opens. The window slides into the roof and the tailgate disappears under the floor. Real clams don't open their shells that way as they open more the way a waffle-maker is opened, but the name has stuck, and anyone familiar with wagons immediately knows which ones are being referred to if the term is used.
I was not trying to PROVE anything. I was just trying to make conversation and point out a few ways in which the Custom Cruiser could have been considered a 98 version of a station wagon. Personally, I thought some of those ways (the dealer's comment back in the day, the wheelbase agreement, the rear-end treatments, the photo caption from the book) were quite legitimate. But you needed to take out a baseball bat and beat me into the ground with my errors. Fine. As I say, you have to win, and you did.
And, yes, I will take my ball and go home because, frankly, you're no fun to play with.
This wasn't an issue of winning or losing, it was an issue of facts vs. opinions. Sorry, but despite what is going on in the world today, facts trump opinions (pun not intended). Salesmen frequently say things to sell a car. That doesn't make them true. Just FYI, my 1985 Delta 88 Luxury Sedan uses the grill and header panel from the 84 Ninety Eight, which is different from those used on the 1985 D88 Royales that I also own. That doesn't make it a C-body any more than similar taillights do on the Custom Cruiser.
Sorry, but in the real world of business, this is how it goes. I guess you were never on the debate team.
No, I wasn't, and I didn't think it was necessary to have been on one in order to engage in a conversation.
That's your problem, Joe. You treat everything here as a debate, and you have all the facts, so you always win. It must be tough being the smartest guy in the room all the time.
You enter a conversation, and all the oxygen gets sucked out of the room.
Last edited by jaunty75; August 28th, 2019 at 07:30 PM.
No, I wasn't, and I didn't think it was necessary to have been on one in order to engage in a conversation.
That's your problem, Joe. You treat everything here as a debate, and you have all the facts, so you always win. It must be tough being the smartest guy in the room all the time.
You enter a conversation, and all the oxygen gets sucked out of the room.
It isn't necessary to have been on the debate team, however it would have taught you that presenting facts backed up by hard documentation is the best way to support one's case and not a personal affront to your manhood. It should be no surprise that I have a low threshold of BS and try to combat "truth decay" whenever I can. Are you suggesting that we should ignore facts and promote misinformation just so uninformed people can feel good about themselves? I think there's enough of that in the world already.
And FYI, pretty much everything I cite is available on the web for free. I don't have all this stuff memorized, I just know how to use Google.
August 27th, 2019, 12:10 AM
) made the Cutlass wagon look left out, hence the name change to Cutlass Cruiser.
