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This was no "rare racer". It was just a W-30 someone ordered. A "real racer" would have ordered it with the M-21 close ratio Muncie and added headers. But it makes a good "story" for them that don't know.
This was no "rare racer". It was just a W-30 someone ordered. A "real racer" would have ordered it with the M-21 close ratio Muncie and added headers. But it makes a good "story" for them that don't know.
Maybe someone did add headers at some point, and it was ordered with the M-21.
This was no "rare racer". It was just a W-30 someone ordered. A "real racer" would have ordered it with the M-21 close ratio Muncie and added headers. But it makes a good "story" for them that don't know.
absolutely not. the M20 is the choice of trans for drags over the M21
you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
the first gear ratio in the M20 is what you want for off the line acceleration and also 2nd and 3rd with more gear multiplication..that’s the M20
If you need further education…let me know
the car was also ordered with bench seat, no options
I know this car, it’s local to me. I have talked to the owner a few times at shows. He has cleaned it up immensely in the last year as I saw it when it was pretty rough, just dirty and sitting a long time. It’s a pretty cool w30 with bare bones. Obviously if it has an m20 the m21 was smoked back in the day. Jim Compisano does very good research before he posts a story. Unless I missed it he didn’t state it was originally with the m20. If you have any questions on the car I can probably reach out to the owner.
Don't know anything about m20 or m21, but I know what I barn find is. All the talk about genuine barn find, but no documentation of this claim. Barn, shed and field finds are not easily reclaimed. So, what makes this a barn find, and how is this a significant part of this story?
Would love to see a thread on true barn find stories from this group of Olds owners.
I know this car, it’s local to me. I have talked to the owner a few times at shows. He has cleaned it up immensely in the last year as I saw it when it was pretty rough, just dirty and sitting a long time. It’s a pretty cool w30 with bare bones. Obviously if it has an m20 the m21 was smoked back in the day. Jim Compisano does very good research before he posts a story. Unless I missed it he didn’t state it was originally with the m20. If you have any questions on the car I can probably reach out to the owner.
This is a direct quote from the magazine story..........
"The original owner chose performance over comfort, opting for the high-output W-30 engine and a wide-ratio M20 four-speed cogbox."
absolutely not. the M20 is the choice of trans for drags over the M21
you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
the first gear ratio in the M20 is what you want for off the line acceleration and also 2nd and 3rd with more gear multiplication..that’s the M20
If you need further education…let me know
the car was also ordered with bench seat, no options
"The Muncie 4-speed is a legendary, durable manual transmission used in GM muscle cars from 1963 to 1974, known for its smooth shifting and ability to handle high-torque V8 engines. Available in wide-ratio (M20), close-ratio (M21), and the heavy-duty "Rock Crusher" (M22) versions, they are highly sought after for restoration and performance upgrades."
"Key Features & Variants
M21 (Close Ratio): Ideal for high-revving engines and racing, keeping RPMs high between shifts.
M22 ("Rock Crusher"): Features straight-cut gears and higher nickel content for maximum strength, producing a characteristic whine.
M20 (Wide Ratio): Designed for street use with a 2.56 or 2.52 first gear, offering better acceleration for heavier cars."
Let me just add that an awful lot of stock class winners, MPH and ET record holders used the M21 (close ratio).
"The Muncie 4-speed is a legendary, durable manual transmission used in GM muscle cars from 1963 to 1974, known for its smooth shifting and ability to handle high-torque V8 engines.
Oof, AI has a lot to learn about the muncie. I have a hotrod magazine from 1971 here somewhere with a tutorial on how to swap an A833 in place of a muncie..
Don't know anything about m20 or m21, but I know what I barn find is. All the talk about genuine barn find, but no documentation of this claim. Barn, shed and field finds are not easily reclaimed. So, what makes this a barn find, and how is this a significant part of this story?
Would love to see a thread on true barn find stories from this group of Olds owners.
If a car was stored in a barn and someone heard about it, talked to the owner and purchased it then it’s a dang barn find.. no need to complicate this.
"The Muncie 4-speed is a legendary, durable manual transmission used in GM muscle cars from 1963 to 1974, known for its smooth shifting and ability to handle high-torque V8 engines. Available in wide-ratio (M20), close-ratio (M21), and the heavy-duty "Rock Crusher" (M22) versions, they are highly sought after for restoration and performance upgrades."
"Key Features & Variants
M21 (Close Ratio): Ideal for high-revving engines and racing, keeping RPMs high between shifts.
M22 ("Rock Crusher"): Features straight-cut gears and higher nickel content for maximum strength, producing a characteristic whine.
M20 (Wide Ratio): Designed for street use with a 2.56 or 2.52 first gear, offering better acceleration for heavier cars."
Let me just add that an awful lot of stock class winners, MPH and ET record holders used the M21 (close ratio).
Finding a Muncie 4 speed is about as difficult as finding a 4 door 57 Che by... They are everywhere. I could buy 5 off marketplace at any given time. M22, not so much but m20’s are everywhere, 21’s not that hard to find either.
I suppose if it was #'s matching it would prove it's not a W30...
I hate these articles that are 90% AI fluff.
FWIW I didn't watch the video so if they talk about all the paperwork they have on this car, I missed it...
‘It’s not an AI generated video on muscle car campy..I know Jim, he has been an editor for muscle car magazines, corvette and mustang mags along with many others. A very knowledgable and seasoned car guy I can assure you..I read the article and it sure seems very legit on the info other than the car didn’t come factory with a m20 in a w30 in 69 or 70.
If a car was stored in a barn and someone heard about it, talked to the owner and purchased it then it’s a dang barn find.. no need to complicate this.
You can put your boots in an oven and call 'em biscuits. There are "Barns" that are climate controlled. Some are called "Barn Finds" because they haven't been washed for a good while and not worth the mention. Cars that are rescued from long time storage & neglect in a delipidated barn, shed or field and brought back to life are impressive. A barn find story about buying a car with a 4 speed, and whether or not someone took it out and put another 4 speed in it about as controversial as hanging some fuzzy dice from the rear view mirror.
I do love barn finds and admire the willingness to save one and have respect for the work it takes to bring them back to life.
It's a really nice car anyway.
You can put your boots in an oven and call 'em biscuits. There are "Barns" that are climate controlled. Some are called "Barn Finds" because they haven't been washed for a good while and not worth the mention. Cars that are rescued from long time storage & neglect in a delipidated barn, shed or field and brought back to life are impressive. A barn find story about buying a car with a 4 speed, and whether or not someone took it out and put another 4 speed in it about as controversial as hanging some fuzzy dice from the rear view mirror.
I do love barn finds and admire the willingness to save one and have respect for the work it takes to bring them back to life.
It's a really nice car anyway.
‘yea, ok, like it’s unusual for a car that’s been street or drag raced to have lost a block or a tranny. I see nothing controversial about it. Maybe your boots and biscuits are to well done.
What's happened to this website? No more light hearts and light posts. Always picking nits now or so it seems. It's a cool story that has its holes like all the stories written with second or third hand knowledge. AI doesn't help either.
What's happened to this website? No more light hearts and light posts. Always picking nits now or so it seems. It's a cool story that has its holes like all the stories written with second or third hand knowledge. AI doesn't help either.
"The Muncie 4-speed is a legendary, durable manual transmission used in GM muscle cars from 1963 to 1974, known for its smooth shifting and ability to handle high-torque V8 engines. Available in wide-ratio (M20), close-ratio (M21), and the heavy-duty "Rock Crusher" (M22) versions, they are highly sought after for restoration and performance upgrades."
"Key Features & Variants
M21 (Close Ratio): Ideal for high-revving engines and racing, keeping RPMs high between shifts.
M22 ("Rock Crusher"): Features straight-cut gears and higher nickel content for maximum strength, producing a characteristic whine.
M20 (Wide Ratio): Designed for street use with a 2.56 or 2.52 first gear, offering better acceleration for heavier cars."
Let me just add that an awful lot of stock class winners, MPH and ET record holders used the M21 (close ratio).
AI is lying to you because AI don’t know crap about drag racing
no car will get down the track quicker with an M21 over an M20. don’t matter if it’s a dedicated race car or a street car.
Last edited by Olds64; Mar 12, 2026 at 03:30 PM.
Reason: No trolling.
Jeez, all this hate about transmission options. Everybody knows that the best transmission option would have been the 3 speed Ford top loader! I mean, Oldsmobile used it in B bodies and FORD!
Jeez, all this hate about transmission options. Everybody knows that the best transmission option would have been the 3 speed Ford top loader! I mean, Oldsmobile used it in B bodies and FORD!
I had a 69 Cutlass with a 3 spd that I wish I still had. It was red, red bucket seat interior with no console, no power steering or brakes either. Just a plain jane car, but it was fun.
