Hi All, Happy Thanksgiving!

Not sure where to post this question, so let me know if I'm in the wrong spot..

Just starting on a 1970 Cutlass convertible restore, rust-free, AT, with a solid 1968 455 in it, and I'm toying with the idea of a 4-4-2 W30 clone. Normally don't care much for fakes, but given how fantastic these cars were / are, I'm more than willing to spend the money to do one right. I'm just wondering about the final value of a clone, vs. just staying with the original Cutlass Supreme Vert. Any comments or ideas about clone values? Any input would be appreciated, thanks.

 

JMO but if you build a clone you are building a car for yourself and not for investment value. I am building a 72 vert 442 clone and I will never recapture the investment by selling it. As far as clone value vs restored value .......I think the clone would be a worth a little more based on observations from eBay, CL etc.

 

It's your car, IMHO build to enjoy. There is no investment strategy as it will be worth only what someone is willing to write a check for.

 

Even if you value your time at nothing, you won't get your money back either way. Build the car for yourself.

And BJ auction results notwithstanding (people there have waaaay more money than brains), a clone is typically not worth as much as a totally stock restoration, even of a lesser model. Yeah, there's always the chance you'll find a sucker who doesn't know (or care) that it's a clone, but that's a long shot.

 

Thanks guys, appreciate the comments. Kind of what I thought as far as this being 'for me' and not for investment, but I also know that I'll eventually sell it when I find another project that I can't live without. Don't want to be in too deep when that happens... Wasn't sure what the consensus was within the Olds community about 'tributes', seems like they are kind of looked down on in some circles.

 

I'll put my thoughts in, and I had originally decided not to earlier, but since this is a civil conversation, it should be ok. I'll try to be very polite, too.

Clones are, by nature, deceptions, because they don't represent what they truly are. The worst of these are the Shelby Cobras, with the majority of them being kit cars. This is, in a way, a blessing, because anyone who looks at one will assume it is a clone until they find out otherwise. Problem is, with our cars, a correctly done clone is a rarity, and most cars are simply poorly rebadged. This leads most people who look at a full clone to think it is the real deal.

The onus, of course, is on the owner to inform them differently. The problem is, even with a scrupulously honest owner, he won't be there with the car at a show 100% of the time to tell people it's a clone, nor will he have a sign that says that. Everyone says they clone for themselves, but the admiration of people deceived into thinking you have a rare car has got to be tempting, right?

Then, it's time to sell the car, some day. You, being an honest man, tell the potential buyer it's a clone. He buys anyway. Say he's not honest. Or he gets divorced and the wife gets the car. Or he dies and the kids want quick money. Or he is hard up for cash and has to squeeze blood from a stone. In those circumstances, is the nature of the car going to get told? Probably not, and we just went from a tribute clone to a fake.

Long story short, making a clone, in purely my opinion, is very irresponsible, because it will outlast you, and there's no guarantee that it will be honestly represented till the day it dies.

As for value, clones have no value over a stock resto, maybe less. My recommendation for you is to leave the car badged as a Cutlass, and then put all the awesome options you want on it. Go ahead and do OAI, do the W-30 specs on the engine, make it as powerful as a W-30 in all ways. You'll have an awesome car, and it will be honest.

My 442 is not a w-30. I wish it were. It's not a track pack car either, and I wish it were that, too. I've got all sorts of bolt on options for it, but, at the end of the day, it will always be a 442. Sorry to ramble, and I hope I didn't offend anyone.

 

How about no badges (badges? we don't need no stinking badges!) Its my dream with my next car to get a Cutlass Supreme and build it how I want it, with all the cool options I can get, OAI, Hodkins suspension, maybe a LS motor. Make it an everyday show driver. The only badging I would put on the car is Oldsmobile. Build it for you and don't worry about the value as others have stated.

 

Koda, I have to respectfully disagree about your theory on clones. The only time there is a deception is if the Vin# has been changed, and/or it was marketed as something it is not. Until then it's just plain personalization.


Valuations of finished nicely built clones are usually higher than the standard stock original restored car that was used to fabricate the clone.


It's the responsibility of the buyer to make an educated decision on any purchase.

 

Actually, I think you're agreeing with me.

My point is that a clone will outlast the creator, thus marketing as something it is not is inevitable.

 

No, I still disagree as I don't accept that most people go out of their way to deceive.

 

Fair enough. I AM a cynical dude. Comes with the engineering job.

 

Just build it as a Cutlass. Seems that Cutlass's and regular 442s are getting left behind in the pursuit of W30s. Stripes and a hood dont make it fast.

Save the cash on the looks and put it in the engine. And stand out by NOT being a W30, real or look-a-like.

 

I also decided not to clone my Cutlass to a W30. Had all the emblems etc and sold them. Been there before with a Cheby. I think that almost all of them around anymore are SS396's or 454's! Anyways, mine is just a Cutlass done to my taste, handles great, and hauls *** on the street. Besides, I don't have to answer all of the questions brought on by a clone.

 

No consequences within the community, you only need to please yourself.

 

It's the responsibility of the buyer to make an educated decision on any purchase.[/QUOTE]


Exactly! If the fact that it is a numbers matching original, matters that much to a prospective buyer somewhere down the road, he needs to do his research on the car and see the documentation.

 

[QUOTE=TK-65;621450] Stripes and a hood dont make it fast.

You are kidding me right What about the spoiler? I heard they take off about 2 seconds in the quarter

 

I made my car look like a w30 and it has a 455 from a 70 442. I chose to leave the Cutlass badges on it though. That was back in 97 when it was painted long before all this clone stuff became popular. The vin says Cutlass not 442 so that's what it stays as.