Octania

Looking up all things "34487M" on the internet brought up this:

http://usedcarsfsbo.com/asp/Item.asp...10%2F21%2F2012

"I JUST HAD THE GAS TANK REPLACED AND FOUND THE BUILDSHEET ATOP TANK. "

Well there you go
Lansing Built 1970 A-bodies put the Build Sheet atop the gas tank, says the seller.

He may be the first, last and only one to ever find such a thing. Maybe they had a substitute line worker from the Corvette assembly plant that day.

I call BS on this Build Sheet story. ALL CAPS is another sign...

Anyone else ever seen or heard of a Build Sheet being found atop the fuel tank of the 442 of this era? Not a Broadcast card, not the back seat.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The ad text [smacks of GOD BLESS YOU BOB Strohrigl]

"1970 OLDSMOBILE 442 (34487M vin) (see video and over 100pics below)NUMBERS MATCHING ENGINE, TRANS AND POSI 3.42 PERFORMANCE AXLETHIS OLDS IS A RARE FIND, DRIVETRAIN HAS NEVER BEEN OUT OF CAR, REMOVED OR MESSED WITH.ALL NUMBERS MATCH, CARB, HEADS, MANIFOLDS.IT HAS POWER DISC BRAKES,PS, SPORT STEERING WHEEL, AM/FM REAR SPKR. EVERYTHING WORKS EVEN THE WIPER WASHERS!IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR AN OLDS 442 1970 IS THE YEAR TO FIND. THIS IS TRUELY A RARE FIND IN ORIGINAL CONDITION. INTERIOR IS ALL ORIGINAL AND IN FANTASTIC SHAPE.THIS OLDS 442 WAS ORDERED WITH THE BENCH SEAT IN LEIU OF BUCKETS (on buildsheet & original sales sheet from 1970)I JUST HAD THE GAS TANK REPLACED AND FOUND THE BUILDSHEET ATOP TANK. I ALSO FOUND THE ORIGINAL SALES SLIP SHOWING ALL OPTIONS AND ANOTHER BUILDSHEET IN GLOVE BOXBODY HAS HAD 1 REPAINT BACK IN THE 80'S. IT HAS TYPICAL RUST AT BOTTOM OF ORIGINAL FENDERS AND ORIGINAL 1/4'S DOORS ARE CLEAN (look at pics under doors).UNDERCARRAIGE IS SOLID BUT NEEDS SOME CLEANING UP.THIS CAR WAS AN ESTATE CAR WHICH HAD SAT FOR MANY YEARS. THE STORY IS THAT THE MILES ARE ORIGINAL BUT UNSUBSTANTIATED. I KNOW THE MOTOR MOUNTS ARE ORIGINAL AND THE DRIVETRAIN HAS NEVER BEEN OUT. THIS CAR WILL SMOKE THE TIRES (both) ALL DAY LONG.PLEASE CONTACT ME IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS.THANK YOU"

Allan R

Easy enough to validate. Simply contact the seller and ask to see a pic of one of the build sheets. If he can't or won't show that, then I think the BS call may be valid. If he actually has the holy grail, it would be uber cool to see.

vette442

On Fremont and Arlington-built cars, yes. On Lansing-built cars? Nope.

Octania

What? A seller confused or deliberately producing false documentation? Unheard of, I say!!

:-)

Allan R

Oh, I never said that Chris. I said check it out before you call BS. I'm of the same opinion that you and Terry are of finding a true build sheet on top of a Lansing tank are. Never seen one there, but hey - every now and then a blind squirrel finds a nut.

I did note that the pic in the ad is from 2012 and there are no 442 numerals on the deck lid. If it's a factory original car and the deck lid is too? Yeah, a BS is warranted.

rustyroger

Anyone work in the assembly plants on here?.
I hear and read conflicting stories about build sheets all the time.
Clearly they are not supposed to be supplied with the car, or they would be in the documents folder that comes with the car. On top of the gas tank indicates they weren't for the benefit of the car buyer.
However it seems some factories left them in, some removed them, and it was hit and miss in others. So no guarantee any particular car will have it, or that it won't. It seems that it is very desirable to find one, nobody making fake ones yet?.

Roger.

rob1960

While I don't work at a GM plant,I do work on the line building Ford E series cut-a-way vans(the fullsize Econoline van ended last year but we still build the E350/E450s for U-haul,Penske,etc). We use many broadcast( build) sheets through out the system. In my area,Chassis,there are at least 2 sheets taped on every frame that show all the things like the vin#(our vins do not come down the line in numerical order), unit sequence #(these are 4 digit #s that do come down in order but are only used in the plant for assembly only) , axle codes,springs, shocks,gas tanks,wiring harnesses,etc. It is part of someones job to pull these off & throw them away at the end of the line. After the vehicle is done the build sheets are considered trash & the inspectors get pissed when they see 'em still attached to the frames & bodies! I've heard from many that Lansing built cars have far fewer build sheets left in them than cars produced at the other plants. On my own Lansing built '68 442 all I've found is the small broadcast card that was hog-ringed to the back seat cushion. The carpet was replaced before I bought the car(and they did a crappy job so I replaced again)If there was anything left under the carpet it was long gone. The rest of the interior is still original. I did take the seat backs off but found nothing.

Koda

Roger, the company I do engineering for (Toyota) prints the manifests and they clip to the core supports or the hood latch. There's like 3, and someone pulls and throws in a recycling box one on each line, so you don't have any excess paper leaving the line. The last manifests are yanked on the final lines and none make it to the inspection line, which are the light tunnels and engine start processes, along with quality checks.

My 72 Monte Carlo had 3 build sheets, one under the rear seat which I found when I had to pull it, one in the fender which my granddad found when it got hit, and one from somewhere else. I think it came from St. Louis or Kansas City.

Oh, God Bless Bob. Out of Jeffersonville, Indiana, which is a shithole. Old God Bless had a seat for me, which he claimed was the split bench for a 67. I specifically asked did it have an armrest. He swore it did. I drive over there with my buddy, and, after meeting him in a trailer park, and going to another place in the trailer park, and puling a tarp off a yard trailer, it was the non-split one, which I couldn't use. He couldn't understand why I didn't want it or why I didn't want to buy anything else. I then was worried about being shot for my perceived "rudeness." Utter shitball.

1970cs

Roger. All plants were instructed to toss the buildsheets. Lansing was the headquaters so this was followed to a T.

Someone here on this forum has found a chassis sheet, and that's physically as close we have come on a Lansing car.

The were used, this is as close as we know so far to a build sheet from Lansing.




Pat

MDchanic

Cool pics! Thanks, Pat.

- Eric

Gary M

The guy installing the 442 emblems must have been on vacation that day. nice catch.

rustyroger

That's kind of what I thought Pat, thank you.
I found two build sheets (or broadcast cards or whatever Fomoco called them), complete with carbon papers and copies, in a Mk6 Lincoln. I have never found one in any other American car.
To read some of the threads on various American car forums you might think every car left the factory with a build sheet, and the assembly workers were just playing hide and seek with you.

Roger.

shatrab

I have found the same tag hog-ringed to my back seat of my 68 442. Do you have any idea what the top line indicates (of the 4 lines of code)? Here is a pic of mine.

marxjunk

fisher soft trim tag

is it a convert?the line ending in 67..i think is the style

its the codes fisher needed to build the car like buckets ac etc color of the interior...ive had a few...if its orig to the car the stuff will match up to the trim tag

orange442

There is also no Rocket emblem around the trunk key so maybe they had recently painted it and just had not installed all emblems yet when this pic was taken.

Allan R

The Rocket deck lid emblem was not standard on the 1970 442. It was standard on the 1970 W31 though.
From 1970 product identification - 442

shatrab

Yes, it is a convertible and the line above matches the cowl tag ID. It has the original saffron paint under a repaint that was done with trim still on (Y2).

marxjunk

k..i have some notes, but those may be internal codes that havent been deciphered yet...i will look when i get home this weekend

orange442

Yes, you are correct, I even have a 70 442. I guess I was thinking about my 9 other 70 models that all had it originally, honest mistake.

Diego

I don't think I'd say "It was standard on the W-31." Rather, it was standard with the F-85 and Cutlass.

allyolds68

I've got mine too although it's so faded I can only make out the W29 (442 model) and the U80 (Rear Speaker). I've also probably got U75 (rear power antenna) although I can't see it.


I'm not sure what the first line is. Possibly the build day and shift. I can't read mine other than the last three numbers which are 22-6.


I still don't understand why these 68 tags had W29 on them because there wasn't anything that was 442 specific on the 68 tub when they came out of Fisher Body.

Koda

Piercings for the badges?

shatrab

The power rear antenna probably will not show on yours as my convertible has a rear power antenna also, and I do not see it on the tag (the antenna and convert top are the only power items on my car, I don't even have power steering, power brakes, or air).

Could it have anything to do with the W36 stripe or do you think that tag would be for interior items only? Mine (Bumble Bee stripes) are original to the car and are still there (a look behind the fenders through the door frame shows no other positioned holes or putty in their place either, just untouched patina). Kind of strange otherwise why they would include the paint code (Y2 on mine). Mike, do you know if your W36 stripes are original (maybe that gives reason for the W29 to place the correct fenders for the stripe)? Also, thanks for sharing your tag numbers. Maybe there will be an official deciphering of that first line.

In case anybody has interest in comparing the tag to my cowl plate ID, see below.

The second line on my fisher tag (56197) matches my cowl tag (LAN256197).
The third line (667-940) also are on my cowl tag (68-33667), as is the 940 (Strato buckets?), and Y-2.
Vin is 344678M25xxxx
Sorry if I am changing the original thread (hijacking), but this is an interesting tag to try to understand.

shatrab

You did better than I did in suggesting this... It took me 20 minutes to suggest the same thing (but in defense, I was trying to add two photos that wouldn't attach together because of the total file size).

allyolds68

The paint code had to be there because it was a Fisher installed item. The convertible tops were installed at Fisher too. That's why there's nothing in the assembly manual about them

The only badge piercings that may have been done at Fisher were the trunk. The fenders were pierced and painted at the assembly plant. I think the hood was painted too because it was pierced at the assembly plant. The W36 stripe was done there too although the assembly manual only shows a revised location for the emblems, not the stripe location. I assume they had piercing templates for all the different fenders


There are no other 442 specific piercings. That's why W30 or (W36) doesn't have to be on the broadcast card in 68. I think it does in 70-72 because the body stripes were painted at Fisher.


The dash stripe was applied at the plant as well so it can't be that

shatrab

Thanks!

BlackGold

Were they? I thought the body stripes in 70-72 were just about the last thing done to the car at Final Assembly? I even vaguely recall seeing pictures.

Carshinebob

Correct! All "W" stripes from 70 to 72 were painted in the final repair hole just next to the door were the finished cars drove out. A good friend of mine worked there from 1966 until the plant closed. ~BOB

allyolds68

I'm sure you're correct. I don't know 70-72 as well as 68. I'm not sure why 70-72 W30's had W30 on the boardcast card then.

4speed455

Piercings for the W30 badges?

Koda

Per above, I think the fenders did not come from Fisher, which is where the badges are. It's hard for me to wrap my head around the way they did it then, the car was much more a body parked on a completed chassis with other panels then hung on as opposed to even body on frames today, which hangs all the panels together then drops the whole enchilada on a completed chassis, and unibodies are totally different.

I'm amazed at that engine line picture how the worker could just headbutt the conveyor chain if she wanted to do so.

marxjunk

shatrab


30-22-1 projected build date....with 01C, jan 3rd week it fits 22 day to 30th day..1 being January..so it was started in the 3rd week

i have a note..and it says diff factories did it diff...some are definite like 1-22..otheres have a range...and it says could be a supply issue...or may be because the car was ordered instead of a sales bank

second line
body/job number..it matches your trim tag

i have some hand written notes from a few people that just live this stuff...so i dont know how accurate the info really is(neither do they..yet)...but they collect this like people collect coins...they have it organized and are compiling it and making a library of the info...mostly, trying to get enough info gathered, to help people decode stuff and to combat fraud...trim tags and broadcast cards seem to be the most counterfeit pieces of car memorabilia out there

i cant say its accurate...but its what i have

allyolds68

Everything that I've been able to figure out about how Fisher delivered a body is based on what was NOT installed in the Factory Assembly Manual.


In 68 it appears all the body piercings except the tub, doors and trunk lid (which would explain the W29 on the Fisher Card) were done at the assembly plant. The body wouldn't have come from Fisher on the frame because the frame and drivetrain assembly is in the Assembly Manual.


Things like seat brackets, convertible top, vinyl top, window glass, interior door panels, etc are not shown in the assembly manual. The four speed hump isn't shown in the assembly manual but I don't think it's on the Fisher Broadcast card in 68 so I have no idea where that was installed. The carpets were supplied by Fisher but installed at the assembly plant (per a note in the assembly manual).


I don't think the front and rear seat installation is shown in the assembly manual but those definitely could not have been installed at Fisher. My assembly manual is missing section 13 so it may be there. If anyone else has section 13 from the 68 Assembly Manual I'd love to get a copy

shatrab

Cool info. Thanks!

Mike (allyolds68), was yours built in June of 68 (your 1st line had last two numbers being 22-6)?

So with what is mentioned in above posts about the w29 designation on the card, (sorry, I am lost in the explanation about what was done where and why W-29 would be on the tag) is this any "proof" (for the lack of a better word), that a car was assembled with the W36 stripe? I am reasonably certain mine was in any case, as the original car paint is still on the car (underneath a poor 2nd coat that the trim wasn't even taken off for), as is the original stripe (is still there).

allyolds68

My car is an 04C build. As you can see from this pic of mine it could say just about anything. I "thought" the last three were 22-6 but who knows. Maybe someone with access to a police crime lab can get the numbers off it for me...


I'm almost certain my car didn't come with the fender stripe. The rear trunk lid makes sense though.

Koda

From what I understand, the Fisher plant made the body tub, hung the doors and the decklid, painted it, hung the IP, put in the headliner and I just don't know about the seats. The fenders and hood were stamped, welded, and painted elsewhere. In Final Assembly, there was an engine line that assembled the powertrain, and supplied it to a chassis/frame line which put the suspension on the frame, put the powertrain in, and other things. Then there was body marriage where the tub came in, then all the other panels, then a final line for things like bumpers, grilles, radiator.

This is in contrast to how my company does body on frame cars. We have the same engine line, same frame line, but even the body on frame cars can bolt together entirely without the frame (ie the fenders and hood are there already.) The painted body comes to us, and the first thing we do is remove the doors, send them off to a door line, and the trim lines are analogous to the Fisher lines. Everything else is similar other than putting the doors back on.

shatrab

Good to know (through comparison). So it looks like the W-29 on the tag has nothing to do with the stripe then, based on that. Thanks for showing the image of your tag, Mike. At least yours shows how long it should be, but is a shame yours is so faded (as yours is in better shape overall and would be cool to see how many additional codes there was room for.

Anybody an Olds nut out there that has access to a forensics lab?..

davebw31

Look at it this way: everything from the cowl back (or dash) was done at Fisher Body. Everything from the cowl forward and chassis was Lansing Assembly.


Koda: seats were installed at Fisher


ALL: The Fisher Body Broadcast Card was basically to identify body piercing or other special items concerning sheet metal, interior, etc., to tell the line workers what to do or not.


All the time I was down on the assembly line at Lasing Assembly I never saw a Lansing Assembly Build Sheet ever be left in the car. There were two "55 gal. barrels stations, one on each side at two final assembly line stations, the "alignment station" and finally at the "drive line performance test station". I know of only a few Build Sheet that got in to the hands of the customer and that was people like me who worked there, had connections, saw the car built, and bought it. I had mine to the last 70' F85 W31 automatic built. Where is it? Christ I wish I knew......! I do have the dealer invoice, but lost everything else. Who knew those documents would that important now..........!

BackInTheGame

Guys,
Sometimes, instead of taking a picture of the document, you can scan it on the glass of a printer/scanner and the resultant image will show up better both on screen and on printed paper. I was able to recognize family members from a significantly faded photo that was taken in about 1920-ish this way. Might be helpful here...

davebw31

I have stated this before many times, that you can not always go by the pictures in Olds publications, I.E., Service Manuals, Salesman Brochures, Public Relations pictures, Dealer Showroom Information Booklets, etc. These publications that were produced each model year, were generally printed in June of each year proceeding the actual production run. it was not uncommon for Sales or Engineering to make changes right up to the "Pilot Run" (done during July) or actual production (starts in August)!


An example would be in the 70' Service Manual, in the Fuel and Exhaust Section. It shows a special clip and fuel line attachment point for a car equipped with the W31 Option, mid point at the RH frame rail. This was changed/deleted just before production to the same 3/8 fuel line for any model requiring the 3/8 line. This was done to "standardize" the fuel line to only one, thus saving $$/assemblers time.