We've all seen it at local shows and on TV. Ever notice how Mecum and Barrett Jackson almost always seem to go to a commercial when an Olds is coming on the block?

This weekend I was at a local show. I usually go to 2-3 a summer and a like number of cruise's if the proceeds are going to charity. I've been at this one for the past 3 years and have noticed before the total Chevy bias in the judging but have ignored it because the money's for charity and I never go looking for trophies. There were about 300 cars there, from classics through newer cars and trucks. At the end of the show they started awarding trophies. Of the top 75 (I call these, participation awards) almost all were for chevys. The top 3 and "Best in Show"...all chevys. The only ford to win anything was in a separate catagory that they created this year for "Best Ford".

Now I'm not a Ford guy, but there were some gorgeous old Mustangs and Lincolns there. You knew that years of work had gone into them. To have a trophie go to some 2015 Camaro with a wrap on it and nothing else really done, is a shame. There was a chopped '49 Merc that should have taken the top prize in my opinion.

I don;t think that I will do this show again next year. Hopefully, I'll find another one that isn't all about the Chevy. I don't think so, but I'll keep my fingers crossed and keep looking.

 

Find the chairman or governing body of that show and lay it on the line. You won't support their event any longer unless things change. Just be sure to have facts and figures to back it up, and mention that if word gets out, participation and attendance will probably drop.

I once saw a shabby 72 Monte Carlo take a Best of Class in a local show over a POCI National winner 71 Judge and an immaculate V-code 73 442. The MC owner hadn't even vacuumed the car's carpet much less detailed anything. I told the organizer of that show that day would be the last time any of my cars would be in it.

After a couple more years of such stunts participation and attendance dropped and the show folded, which was sad because proceeds went to the local rescue squad. It was easier for me to just send them a check directly.

 

Mine is probably one of 3 max at most shows, so it's hard to claim bias as the participation of the brand is mostly non-existent. I don't worry about getting one for myself, or who gets one for their offerings. I just go to enjoy the cars and the people. Yes, I understand many are for good causes, but I've often wondered why it's the people who supply the product to have the show are charged, while the spectators who are entertained get in free.

 

If you're in this hobby to collect trophies, you're in the wrong hobby.

 

Chip - Sorry to hear about the severe Chevy bias in your area. I don't think I see that nearly as much in the shows I usually attend within a 100-mile radius of St. Louis. In fact, in many cases, I think my car ('67 4-4-2) gets extra consideration because you just don't see any of them in my area. I go to alot of shows and cruises every year and I've yet to see another '67 4-4-2. I have seen every other year 4-4-2, 1965 - 1972, but never another '67.

My pet peeve about judged shows are the Classes. In almost all the shows I go to, there is a Class called "Factory Muscle" and the years are usually 1964 - 1972. Well, my problem with this is, the cars that qualify for this class are generally the most desirable so there are many more of them, and they are generally the most highly restored, yet they still only give out the same amount of trophies as the less popular classes. It's very hard for me to be competitive against Concours, or near Concours, +$100K cars. I can't blame the judge, I agree with them 99% of the time, there are just a bunch of really, really nice Muscle Cars from those years. Where my car does shine is when they pick the Top 25 or 30-cars, regardless of year/make, those I almost always make the cut.

 

Did they make one?

 

Norm - You really are getting forgetful in your old age, I guess you forgot you owned one!!! 😉

 

Nope. Never owned a 4-2-2. They're in a class of their own, I guess.

 

Hey, I never claimed to be an accurate typist! Duly noted, and correction made!

 

Never said that I was looking for trophies. I'm not. Or the lack of Olds' at my local shows, There was one other at this show (a '67. Really nice one too). I was just generally talking about this shows bias against anything that doesn't have a Chevy bow tie on it

 

This is partly the reason I don't participate in "judged' shows - I don't need anyone telling me whether or what they like or don't like about my ride by way of a direct assessment or popular vote.. I attend shows where cars and spectators gather for the fun of it - and when I do, whatever time I actually spend around my own car is largely for the purpose of allowing fascinated kids to sit inside for their parents to take photos and (hopefully) gear them up to save our cars from generational extinction.

The only trophy I want is the car itself...

 

^^^THIS!

And to Norm: the 1967 4-2-2 was called the Turnpike Cruiser.

 

4-2-2 = L-66!

 

Indeed, I forget about that "option".

 

Lots and lots of times the big winners are from the group putting on the show. An all-inclusive show put on by a Chevy club? All Chevy's will win. I went to a local show put on by the Studebaker club once, all cars could enter. Only the Studes won, the other cars were just there to pay for their trophies.

A show put on by a school or church? The most popular/biggest name will win because that's the only car they know.

I went to a Corvair weekend put on by a Corvair club. Cars from all the southeast and beyond were there, each one nicer than the next. The only cars to win were the clubmembers from the club putting on the show. Boy did they get an earful!

 

Might be bias, might be ignorance. Took my 70-442 out for drive on Saturday. Stopped to get some fuel and a guy pulls up in a 76ish Trans Am. He shouts, gorgeous Cutlass, I shout back nice Firebird!

 

Nice retort.

I don't think there's a bias against Oldsmobile, or Buick, or whatever. There are cars that are popular, and cars that aren't. When one looks at the trophy setup, if there's Best 68-72 Corvette, and then the other ranges, and the only thing an Olds can fit in is "Best GM - Other," then that looks like it really sucks until one sees that there are 200 Corvettes there and 10 GM - Other. The Springfield Rt 66 show is like that; my friend was PO'ed that her Olds had to compete in GM - other, and I had my own Monte Carlo class. Since then, they have an Olds class, but, I really think that they try to balance the classes with the anticipated load of said class, like there's no point in having 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place Buick if there will be only two Buicks there.

One thing I noticed is that we are gone from originals. When I did car shows in the 2000s, there were still plenty of unrestored cars from the 60s and 70s, and there were best originals trophies to be had. Now, they are gone, and it better be a 100k restoration to win. I got busted for some non-original paint by some asswagon in 05 at a high school show for not being original. I said the car was hit, did he want it to stay wrecked and not painted? I then got flunked for non original wheels and no trunk equipment, both of which were original and present. I see a lot of similarities between guns and old cars; people tie their manliness to their knowledge of each, and it gets worse the less you know, so some volunteer judge who is a self professed car guy has to know more than the owner of each car. Tough spot to be in. I don't judge, and I don't compete at all any more; I'll leave before trophies are given out if it's that kind of show.

 

Oh you're wicked...😄

I worked with a Fox-body Mustang guy who always called my Hurst a "four-forty-two".

I finally said "let me put this in terms you can understand. Hurst is to 442 as Cobra is to Mustang GT. Does it make sense now?"

He still never got it.

Trophies as a rule are dustcatchers to me, but I mean, damn, recognize a car as what it is and what it's accomplished. Don't insult it by giving the win to your buddy's POS. Doesn't do anyone any favors, neither the nice car that got snubbed nor the POS that won and now thinks he has a true prize winning car.

 

I prefer to go to out of town car shows. I have seen all the local cars dozens of times, people around me have seen my car dozens of times, it’s nothing new. The out of town shows gives me an opportunity to do a little Oldsmobiling, see some different cars, and to meet new people.

I tend to avoid shows put on by certain clubs around here, it’s always the club members who get the special treatment. I recall one show where a club member had just bought a new SRT4 Neon and did NOTHING more than add colored wire loom to the engine. Seriously?! A car that’s a couple weeks old (granted, SRT4 aren’t very common) with NO modifications other than colored wire loom gets Best in show?! Give me a breaks!

Unfortunately, we Oldsmobile fanatics will always be looked down upon by “lesser” cars. 😁 in all honesty, is there anything you can do to a Camaro or Chevelle that hasn’t been done? How can you be unique with 50 other cars just like yours?

I have gotten a few peoples choice awards, and a couple Best non Chevy, always at shows out of town. I’m not too proud to admit, in my opinion there were MUCH nicer Pontiacs and a Buick that probably should have won. Who knows, maybe the judges were Oldsmobile fanatics themselves and let their favoritism show? Maybe they figured this is a way to get back at all the Chevy guys and their bias?.

 

That's what I hate about the "car show and club" crowd. It's all about tacky accessories and Armor All.

 

I'd not been aware of this bias until an OCD-afflicted friend with a GORGEOUS, low mileage, original 1978 Trans Am took it four states away to a national meet of Pontiac-Oakland Club International. The only winners were from the club hosting the national meet. He was so disgusted that he never showed his car again.

 

Gary - I'm pretty sure that's the reputation you see for most judged events (as both your summary & Mike's [slantflat] summary) demonstrate.

And, I agree w/ Eric (oldcutlass) wholeheartedly - spectators free but the entrants pay to display?

I've displayed my heritage Indian Chief Vintage motorcycle at events, but I've never had to pay to display.

I prefer riding & driving...

 

Fifties era cars, like mine seldom win best of show, If you build a car for trophies pick something that is in that popular class Chevelle, Mustang group. If you go for just the fun of it, build what you like, enjoy others cars and make new friends, sometimes you can educate someone on something on your car they needed or wanted to know about, that in its self is a win. It's just a game we play, others make the rules to obey, and we know going in what will probably happen. To me, plaques and trophies are good for the day you get them, the rest of the time they are just dusters. That probably why Cars and Coffee shows are so popular, come when you want to stay as long as you want and usually see a more diverse collection of cars in all stages of restoration. Just my thoughts....Tedd

 

Life is not fair. Car shows are not fair. This month I will be going to a car show with 12,000 cars in St. Paul, Minnesota. I will walk around and look at cars. I'll take pics of unique or "not seen often cars. I'll be able to skip past Chebbies to look at Lincolns, Packards, Studebakers, Hudsons, AMC, Ramblers, Chryslers, Pontiacs, Buicks, and of course, Oldsmobiles.
Its about seeing CARS. I could care less about trophies. Meeting a few people and enjoying the day is what counts.

 

Gang,
There’s a reverse side to this: If we’re off-brand, wouldn’t some of us like to see a 65 Wildcat convertible rather than the 6 millionth red Camaro? Or the catalog-built ‘66 Mustang? I like those cars, but they’re _everywhere_. You can build them by clicking internet catalog links.

It’s more fun for me to see something unusual & creative. Like a Ford-powered-Miata. Or ‘62 Jetfire with turbo (+ Rocket Fluid!) intact. Or even an LS in something from the 1940’s.

There’s an obvious mainstream of Chevys, Fords, & Chrysler. Just watch the homogeneity on Mecum auctions. This is fine by me. Only Olds Cutlass/442’s are even near that river of interest. The rest of us are, well, just a little too unusual for most people to remember or care about. The downside is: lower selling price. The upside is this makes my replacement parts cost way more lower than, say, C2 Corvette parts.

I don’t begrudge anyone their trophies or choices. If you want to do this as a trophy-hunt, go for it. But to win restricts your car model/year choices. Plus it bumps your car restoration price tag by several tens-of-thousands, if not more. If that’s your definition of fun, cool. But it’s not mine.

I’m too impatient to even show my cars. I just drive ‘em around & enjoy them. When I go to shows, I see all kinds of flaws I’d correct before displaying a car, but that’s a matter of each owner’s time & budget. It’s up to them. My old cars are comfortable, safe enough, and weird enough that even the text-while-driving crowd can’t miss them.

Mainstream bias, sure it exists. Should we care? Questionable. It may be simplistic, but I say drive ‘em & enjoy ‘em.

And don’t fuss about trophies. The win is enjoying the ride.

Cheers
Chris

 

Agreed…

 

Try having a convertible that isn’t red.

 

Hay, hay what's that all about, aren't all convertibles red?

 

All Corvettes are red.

 

Guess what? Go to a Mopar forum and they're whining about how they cut to a commercial when a Mopar hits the block.

Never mind that the most expensive muscle cars are Mopars. Never mind that Mopars are #3 compared to GM and Ford but are close to the hearts of just about everyone due to a proliferation of bright colors and fuselage styling that truly captures the zeitgeist of the time.

So what's up with Mopar folks?

Seems to be the same thing with Olds folks--just sour grapes for no good reason.

 

All Chevies have Corvette engines.

 

There should be a trophy show, where everyone brings their trophies to get judged.

 

People seem to like my car, but I would say that only about 10% of them know what it is. Olds didn't help itself by not placing any "Oldsmobile" badges on the exterior of the cars during the years the 4-4-2 was a standalone model.

 

68 and 69 had an Oldsmobile trunk molding. 71 had a rocket logo. 70 was the only one that said nothing but 442 on the outside.

 

x2
Unless you have VERY deep pockets.

 

And all those trophies have to be rubbed down to get rid of the dust. I had enough trophies from drag racing at one time to go around the perimeter of a large family room. I got rid of any trophy less than two feet tall and I still have a pile of them.

 

It was a different car show scene 20 years ago. My bud and I in grad school would take my Monte Carlo to a show every weekend for something to do as everyone communicated via flyers back then, very little internet. So, I won a ton of little trophies for best original. My dad had been invited to some concours-style show of the Antique Automobile Association or something similar as an organizer saw his original Corvette and liked it. As my old man was about the only original car there in a sea of restored cars, he took best original and it was a five foot trophy. Fortunately, his is a convertible so he strapped the trophy in the passenger seat and went home with it sticking out the top. Sits in his dining room, only trophy that car has earned.

 

Now that I think of it, you're correct on '68. However, I have a '69 out in the garage and I'm here to tell you it has nothing but a thin stainless strip featuring no letters whatsoever on the trunk lid.

And in this day and age, you can be assured that very few people outside of these forums know WTF a rocket emblem signifies.

 

Fair enough, you may tell me. I don't own a 69 Olds. I thought it said it based on several pictures off the internet.

This topic has legs, so I will opine. I think the muscle car wars were really a thing within GM with itself and also with Chrysler. Ford had the Torino, but I think most of their performance efforts were on the latter year super powered Mustangs. I view FoMoCo as Lincoln being the Cadillac equivalent, and Mercury being the Buick equivalent, and Ford being the Chevy equivalent. Pontiac and Olds did not, in my late night rambling opinion, have a Ford equivalent. On the other side, Chrysler was the Cadillac equivalent, when they didn't have Imperial and DeSoto, Plymouth was the Chevy equivalent, but Dodge, to me, was a Pontiac equivalent.

So, the divisions that played in the horsepower wars were Ford, Plymouth, Dodge, Chevrolet, Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and Buick. That's four GM divisions to two Chrysler divisions to one Ford division, with maybe a second for the Cougar with Mercury. AMC had some cars in there, too. I think Ford played more in the Pony Car Wars than the Muscle Car Wars, and I think they won them, but that's like saying the F150 is America's best selling pickup while counting the Silverado and the Sierra as separate trucks when they are both GM, as are the Camaro and Firebird. So, you remember the Mustang and the Camaro and the Firebird, but the Barracuda/Challenger is lesser known, and no one remembers AMC.

In the intermediates, Chevy, Pontiac, and Mopar won, so people remember Chevelle SS's, GTOs, and a bunch of B Body Mopars. People don't remember Ford intermediates, AMC, Olds, or Buick.

Other than the few years of the AC Cobra, the Corvette stood alone as the Thunderbird had gotten fat by then.

I mean, it could be worse, we could be Buick or AMC.

I go yearly to the Newport Hill Climb, which is primarily 42 and older US cars. There is a class, and to my point, of 55 and older discontinued makes that were ended by 70. It is a swan song to the independent automakers that died instead of being a Big 3's division, or a Big 3 division that was axed. Studebakers, Hudsons, Packards, Nashs, DeSotos, Kaisers, Henry Js, Crosleys, ******, and Edsels. It's a good education for a guy that wasn't there.

 

I think you are talking about "Horsepower wars and muscle car wars" as a piece of the whole "Performance era". The "Big 3" had models in several configurations. Ford, had toys in the horsepower game. Early 60's was the tri-power 390 and 406 which evolved into the various 427's. Ford also had the SOHC 427, and the "Thunderbolt 427's" Mercury did have the Cougar's but they also had the Calinte and Cyclone.

Ford also came out with the "dollar a pound" 64 1/2 Mustang. By 1965 orr so, the 225 HP 289 got an available option. The 271 HP solid lifter 289 was available and the GT359 was about 305 HP. Ford 427' were holding their own in NASCAR. A Mercury 427, 4 speed won its class and set a record in 1964. Mercury was comparable to Buick/Olds. DeSoto was comparable to Buick/Olds and Mercury. Lincoln, Imperial and Cadillac were in their own league.

1942 and older cars are just a piece of the American automobile history that included introduction of the "Flathead V-8". 1949 was the beginning of a new era with the Oldsmobile OHV V-8.and later, the Cadillac V-8. Middle 1950's saw multiple carbs on production cars. Even Buick, Cadillac and Chrysler offered multiple carbs on some models..

I think your opinion is based on articles that you have read. Unfortunately they were articles that were written by people who read articles and re-wrote them. Those people were not even a gleam in their daddy's eye when these cars were around. A lot has gotten lost in the translations.