Trying figure out what vendor makes the best cams for our motors. I've heard most vendors have Chevy & Ford grinds on their Oldsmobile cams.

Second question - is a Full Roller set up really worth all the extra coin

 

Lunati Voodoo series is probably one of the better Olds cams out there and a LOT of guys use them, but it will really come down to the seat of your pants.

Full roller? Not unless you are trying for a drag car. I'm going to run a Voodoo, and the Comp Cams roller rockers with adjustable pushrods and see how she works for me.

 

For Street Cars I would use either Engle or Lunati. Lunati did the research grinds for Olds in the 60s-70s and Engle worked with the stock racers in the 70s and 80s. There is new technology for race cars, but for the street these two vendors are the ones I would suggest.

Frankly, if you are just looking for good torque/hp and are staying with stock rockers and 300 lb or less valve springs, you can't beat the factory W-31 308 degree cam. You can get this from Fusick and Supercars unlimited. You will need at least 275 lbs open pressure to take advantage of it. If you are running stock springs use the 70 stick cam.
Tell me what trans and rear you are using and I will suggest a grind.

 

Engle.

Call them and see why.

 

I prefer Comp. Their catalog items balance lift and duration vs. application well for Olds. Those buying a moderate off-the-shelf cam usually don't want to worry and spend a lot of money on retainer to guide clearance, coil bind, etc. I first went to Cam Dynamics in 1973. One of the partners was John McWhirter, and Olds racer who I believe still has his 66 W30 Track Pack car. In 1976, John and Tom Woitesek, chief cam grinder at CD, left and founded Competition Cams. I have used Comp since the 1970s.

Some smaller "old time" grinders use the advertising gimmick that they know Olds and that they use "special" Olds profiles. That is bunk. The valves go up and down in all engines! A savvy company like Comp can provide moderate to very aggressive lobes consistent with lifter diameter (for flat tappet applications), the right intake and exhausst profiles and durations, and the right lobe centers. For example, lobes that require .875" or bigger tappets (Ford) can be more aggressive than .842" tappet lobes (GM) and Mopar .904" tappets allow even more aggressive profiles. The Olds .921" lifter blocks can use these more aggressive profiles, and the Olds block won't suddenly think it is a Ford or Mopar, trust me, lol. Even among .842" lifter profiles, there are some series that are more aggressive than others for the racers. Those lobes won't suddenly make a Chevy clone out of your Olds, either. If you are going to use it mostly on the street, you should pay much more attention to the valvetrain dynamics. Many brands of lobes are rough on valvetrain parts. Comp keeps a careful balance on aggressiveness vs. dynamics, vs. durability for different kinds of applications.

 

Comp Cams has a history of lobe failures.

Do a Google search - lots of complaints.

Be aware that Comp is a MARKETING COMPANY.

Engle is a CAM COMPANY, with about 6 decades of experience.

Pick up any Car Craft or Hot Rod magazine from the 1960's, and you will see many famous cars with Engles Cams...Like Stone, Woods, and Cook....

 

Remember that most cams sold are Comp, and they have no control over installation quality. It isn't surprising that there are problems, especially with high valve spring pressures and aggressive lobes, combined with EPA compliant low ZDDP oil. I don't want lobes that were designed 6 decades ago, neither do the vast majority of racers. Until you know about the installer who had a lobe wipe, you can't assign blame. Comp does market a lot of "shelf" cams but they also have very fine race lobes for the serious buyer. Modern performance cams with aggressive acceleration ramps on the lobes can't be installed the way you would a stock 1950s or 1960s cam with half the valve spring pressure (they often had 70-80 lb on the seat vs. 120-160 now; 160-180 lb. open back then and 320-400 now will be typical). Then you get the installers who never head of checking for coil bind, retainer to guide clearance, valve to piston clearance, etc.

 

Thanks for the replies, my car is 72 Supreme w/ 455/ 400 combo. The compression is 10.1, the motor was rebuilt when I got the car. It has headers, 2.5 inch exhaust, 2200 stall, 3.23 with the 14" SS1's. I do a lot of freeway driving but would still like to a cam with a good punch to it. Considering go to 15" SS1's w/ 295-50 rears & 245- 60 fronts.

 

With mild gearing and mostly street, the Comp XE268 is good. The XE274 is a step bigger, similar in range to the W31/early W30/68 non AC Hurst Olds. The next bigger is the XE284 which is in the size range of the big W30 cam (but more modern and hence makes more power over a wider rpm range).

While "shelf" items and discounted at Summit and Jeg's etc. these Extreme Energy hydraulic cams have quick ramps and need to be broken in carefully with good lube and oil.

I heard for decades that Engle developed the W30 cams, but don't know for sure. I can say that back in the 70s a lot of friends and I tried different brands and found Crane to be somewhat rough on valvetrain parts and lobes, lifters; Lunati was very destructive, General Kinetics was hard on parts. Then as now, the racers used whatever gave them the power to win. In 1972-3 Cam Dynamics enjoyed a huge "revolution" among Stockers and Super Stockers who went to their stuff for its excellent dynamics, high lift, and valvetrain longevity. Comp has taken over where CD left off, beginning with two CD partners forming Comp in 1976. CD was bought by Crane, iirc in 1991. Today's NHRA stockers are very hard on parts. Sam Murray has a 67 442 and has had his Comp cam in for over a decade, using way over 400 lb of valve spring with Schubeck hydraulic lifters.

 

Ok, this a all street driven car that needs a little more attitude just want to beable to shut up these new Camaro & Mustangs. I will research all the mentioned vendors to make a decision. What grinds are recommended for the Engle & Lunati, Run to Rund has mentioned 2 grinds for the Comp Cams. I also just got a good deal on some Harland Sharp Roller Rockers 1.6 so they'll be going in with the Cam swap.

 

Looks like you want the XE274 or XE284 size cam, and if you want to be "safe" around those brand X cars, and will put some gears into yours (how about 3.90s?) the 284 is very strong over 3000 rpm, good up to about 6000.

 

I used a 300 HP 327 Chev profile (ground by a local "hole in the wall" operation) in one of my 324s and it worked out very well.

Who does the designing and/or grinding is not relevant. That the best possible profile(s) is chosen for that unique application is very relevant.

Good information that the entire Olds community should be aware of.

Norm

 

Some bits of information. Tweed Vorhees, who used to race his 67 W-30 Out of Chesrown Olds in the 60's worked on Ron Garey's very successful 1968 W-31. the factory used his car for a test bed and the cams they tried came from Lunati (Olds part no - Lunati Box). Engle had a history of doing a lot of "research" for Olds in the 70's so, given the tech at the time, they were on top of the game back then.

I think the real issue is that if the car is not a race car, (and especially with 3.23 gears) stay away from aggressive ramp race type cams.

Comp Cams is a big boy in the cam manufacturing business, and if Rund to Rund is recommending them, that's good advice. I run them in my 2003 Cobra Terminator and they increased my ET by 2 tenths and when you are talking about the 12s on drag radials in a street driven car, that is a lot. (PS changing 4 cams in a modern car is no fun).

Remember this on the street and especially with a 455 T-400 car "torque talks". Keep the car in a RPM band where that will happen. And dn't buy an aftermarket cam w/o the related spring package.

Use the cam break in oil and with any flat tappet cam nowadays use zinc additive. I use 1/2 of Lucas's Break in oil on evey oil change and I would suggest it for anyone with a vintage Olds.

 

And NOW the Cat's out o' the Bag! Can u say, Lunati #5 please?

 

Lol

 

This is why I like this site good information without the personal measuring wars. I'm just trying to get it right the first time without the trial & errors. I didn't consider the effect of a cam on the valvetrain parts - very good info. Thanks again!

 

The three guys who gave you all that info; Rund to Rund, Chesrown 67 OAI and Jrzybob442 are all members of the Oldsmobile Performance Club. The Club is now free, and you ought to join. go to wildaboutcars.com, register in and then go to the Olds Perf Club (it will be a selection after you register).

Then all you need to do is "Apply to Join" in the OPC site. We are dedicated to building a storehouse of knowledge and SHARING IT it with all Olds Nuts. Give us a try.

Bob

 

I've run the Comp 274EX for over 5000 miles, and it's about the biggest cam(duration wise) for a 455 with p/b, my valve train includes Harland Sharp mini-shaft rockers and Smith Bros. pushrods,and Comp dual valve springs. However, I would love to try the Ultradyne 231/239, or one of the Voodoo grinds, I think these were all designed by Harold Brookshire who is kind of a legend in BOP circles..

 

If you try one of the Comp solids like I run, you will never go back to on-the-shelf cams with juice lifters, lol.

 

Thanks Bob, i'm going to join tonight. @ Run to Rund is there alot of adjustments to be made with the solid set-up. How many miles can you go before you have to reset the valves?

 

I just bought the JM 18-20 from Mondello's for my rebuild Engle makes it for them. I can't wait to get it running when I do I'll post about it. I bought my cam from Mondello after doing a ton of research and asking around on different forums, and what not I decided to try out the Engle cam. Got some new Icon flat-top forged aluminum pistons .030 over from them too. I'm pretty excited this is my first engine in my own garage and I'm sure my next one will be an old's too.

 

UnkleMarc455, I see you joined - Thanks and hope you enjoy your time there
Please check out the "Vault" where we store tons of materials you can download, like Service Manuals, Assembly Manuals, Factory Performance Guides, magazines, brochures, ads and such.
You can reach he Vault by going to http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...late.cgi?id=11

And UnkleMarc455 and others, when and if you join - Check out Rund to Rund and Chesrown67OAI's mini websites on Wild About Cars.

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990337378481
http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...=9990353587006

This is a place where you can document your restoration by setting up your own "club" and then have your own photo album, forum and blog to document it!

 

With a solid lifter cam and good stuff, you only have to re-adjust when something wears or the seats get pounded by the valves. Chevys with their crush nuts on studs with rocker ***** had to be adjusted often because the nuts moved. I run stock rockers and rocker stands with isky adjustable pushrods. I adjust them every couple years since I don't drive the car a lot, mostly race and play around with it on the street. They are never very far off, maybe a few will be off .001" or .002" at most.

 

I think i'm going to pull the motor first and clean up the engine bay with a fresh paint job (rattle can), firewall, wheel wells, frame & radiator support. Got to take advantage of the nice weather in Az., its finally cool enough to actually work on your car without becoming dehydrated in 30 minutes.

I checked out the website last night, great work! seems like another great place for the Olds community to bounce ideals & information around, thanks Bob.

It does seem like i'm going with Comp Cams I like the 274, may have to look for some 3.42's & a 2400 stall.

 

yea i checked out that site too and saved it under favorites!!

 

Save your final cam choice decision until you know what all you are going to do - and what rear and tran converter you go with is really important to you cam choice. I personally think what i said is gonna hold tru for you. Pick the cam you like --- then buy one-step smaller! In your proposal you say you like the 274 --- I can almost guarantee you that the 268 will be much better for you EVEN WITH a 3.42 and 2800 stall converter. It appears to me that you wont have enough compression for the 274 to work better for you than the 268!
MOO!!

 

Thank You ! That needed to be addressed...I feel that there is nothing wrong with brand loyalty(and that is evident here)..The most important issue is to get a good quality camshaft that is ground to a profile that FITS the applications use and purpose!