Mark71

I talked with one of my neighbors who runs a pretty wicked Camaro at the local tracks.

He's got a 700R4 / 4L60 (non "e" version) and has no use for it because he's making enough HP to require a racing setup and doesn't want auto anyhow. He tells me it was from a 92 GMC safari. It is just a rebuildable core, though; he hasn't taken it apart at all.

So here's the question:
Is it worthwhile? I know the swap to a 700R4 isn't too bad because it is similar size-wise and all, but I haven't really looked into much. Any comments? Should I just pass and wait for a TH 350 or 400?

If it is worth it, what's a fair price? He doesn't know what it is worth, but I want to be fair... is 200 bucks fair? More, less???

Allan R

IIRC the 700R4 was a beefier set of clutches, sun gear and planetaries. The 700R4 should be a direct swap, like the 200R4. I had trouble with my 200R4 at 45000 miles. Needed a complete rebuild. Almost everything needed replacing. After the rebuild, it went on for over 150,000 miles and was still going strong when I sold it. If you do change to a 700R4 or a TH400 I think you will also have to look at changing your driveshaft

If it's being sold as a rebuildable core, I'd offer 100.00 just to keep my costs down.

There are lots of TH350s and 400s still out there. You can also buy new 400s from B&M if you want something that will hold up to a real pounding. http://www.bmracing.com/PRODUCTS/Transmissions

DeltaPace77

700R4's the way I went on my car, and well worth the trouble. Keep in mind there's several different strengh levels of these, but maybe not a big deal if you're having the whole thing reworked. You'll need an adaptor plate for Olds engines, and shortening the drive shaft if coming from a TH350. My car has a 3.73 rear, and with 0.70 od 4th yields the same highway cruising rpm's as a TH350 with 2.56 axle.

Bill in NC

The bellhousing will be chevy only, not BOP like the 2004r. You will need to research what it will take to correctly install and adjust the T.V. cable. As far as strength, consider that trans a 350th with an extra gear. Use a well known builder and if you have a BBO, you will need to upgrade a few parts. If you want it, I would try to snag it for $150-$200 for a rebuildable core with good hard parts.

47 Convertible

I got a 700R4 for my 455 powered 47 Olds. If you are going that way get a later model 700R4. There is an early and a late series and the later is better and less expensive to rebuild if you are going to strengthen the transmission. My trans builder is experienced in 700R4 upgrades and says he built mine specifically to withstand the extra horsepower and torque of a warmed up 455. It comes with a one year guarantee and since he is in the same town I am not worried about him standing behind it. His reputation is very solid. I got a trans adapter for $85 but cannot remember at the moment which company I bought it from. Everything bolted right up. Rebuild cost was less than $1,000 incl. a beefed up torque converter and I paid $100 for the core. No R&R at that price.

Caveat: I'm not going to pound this at the strip or on the road but I'm darn sure not going to be embarrassed if someone were to challenge me. So probably 95% of the use is going to be normal cruising. Those who frequently race street or strip may need a stronger trans. build

Mark71

Ok, thanks for the info. I guess I'll talk with him and see if 100 bucks is cool. Too bad that it will have to have a Chevy-Olds adapter, but I figured that it would.

My setup is going to be an SBO, mild setup. Unless, of course, I win the lottery. In this area there are very few Olds engine cores and trans cores... so when I talked with my neighbor and he had the 700R4 around, I figured I better pick it up just in case.

47 Convertible

I don't think you want the one you mentioned. I went back and re-read your initial post and you said the 700R4 was from a 92 GMC safari. They had V6 4.3 liter engines and the 700s in the V6 is not good even for a SBO according to my transmission guy. Wait and find a late model 700 for a V8 engine.

Mark71

wait... I thought that was only a problem with the 60* V6 motors??? Those were very different transmissions than the ones behind the 90* V6 and SBO motors.

In other words, if it will bolt up to an SBC, it will be the same internals. According to one book I have, OEM V6 versions have one less clutch per pack - but on rebuild, that would get changed, of course.

Are you sure? Anyone else sure?

I don't want to spend the cash on it if I can't even use it!

Bill in NC

Whoa, I missed that too. I completely overlooked the Safari part and was thinking Sierra. IIRC the 4.3 V6 trans have a slightly smaller diameter and different input shaft spline count requiring the V6 converter. So you can add the clutch disc(s) and replace/upgrade the input shaft while you're in there. I have only built a few 700R4's so I could be wrong on that one, but I know I've seen some differences and have been told to use those V6 transmissions for parts rather than going through the trouble of converting, upgrading, and updating them to handle even a small block.

Mark71

Wow, Bill and 47_Convertible - thanks so much for making me aware of this. I think I am going to pass on the 700R4. That sounds like a lot trouble to upgrade everything and be sure that it will handle the torque of a mildly built 350.

Besides, if the input shaft and clutches are different, there may be other differences hiding inside.

47 Convertible

I think you are making the right move in passing up the V6 700R4. Patience is a virtue in this game and the right one will come along. Keep looking in CraigsList and other places and while you are waiting do some research on the 700s and the differences so you will know the right one when you are in a position to buy. There are visible clues to newer vs. older and V8 vs. V6. You just gotta look them up.

I don't know squat about prices on the other end of the USA but if one waits a bit in OR and WA you can get a good rebuildable core and TC for around $125 and transmission without the TC for $100. Beware of those advertised as used but "good" transmissions. If it is used it is a core.

bigD

i'd look around for a 200 4R if it was me. no bellhousing adapter and it's reportedly able to handle more hp & tq than the 700... that is the route i'm going.

DeltaPace77

Just checked my records, and the last strongest 4L60(non "E") versions were either code YD or FF. Not sure which of the two I have, but some GM buddies fixed me up with a factory fresh version in 97'. Got the adaptor plate from Premier Performance for $90 bucks, and local drive shaft work was $125 bucks. If you've ever installed a Trans Go shift kit on a TH350/400, you may be wanting to pack both a lunch and dinner for this one.

Mark71

Yeah, I wish things were more available up our way. I've been looking for a Olds 350 engine to rebuild for months. The only ones I've seen within and hour of here are marine engines have serious issues (think non-rebuildable). Even the junk yards are all "auto recycling centers", so you have to pay off-the-shelf prices. There's a pick-n-pull, but it is up in Allentown, PA. which is more than 2 hours from here.

Anyhow, yeah, this 700R4 was just an idea because it was so close and from a guy with a lot of experience. I've heard the 2004R can be made just as strong as the 700R4's, but I haven't ever seen a 2004R on sale around here.

Thanks again for all the info.

Mark71

Oh yeah, since we were discussing 200R4's... Is there an equivalent difference in 200R4's behind V6 motors and those behind V8's?

morepwr

The 200r can be made very strong. There are plenty of them in buick grand nationals that are built up and making lots of power. I have dealt with bowtie overdrives before and they offer up good info if you e-mail or call them. You can look around on their website for info and prices but I am sure there are companies closer to you building them as well.

morepwr

Probably would help if I attached the link huh?

http://bowtieoverdrives.com/index.shtml

Aceshigh

Yes, a 2004R can be built stronger but a 700R4 can also be built up as well.
So if you're going to build one, it doesn't matter really which you choose behind a mild 350.

A 2004R just doesn't require a special adaptor and it does have better a gear ratio.
I recommend www.ckperformance.com and get his Stage II kit.

If you're over 400hp get the billet input shaft.....
Chris is known nationwide as the pioneer of high performance 2004R parts.
I just built a supe'd up 2004R using all his components myself winter 2010.

I've also owned one of CK Performance's Stage II 700R4's and it was capable of handling 500hp.

$200 is outrageously generous for a 700R4 "core".

You can buy a Grand National 2004R core for that which are performance cores in higher demand.
My opinion is the core is worth about $50 - $100 tops. That's it.

90% chance there's damaged parts inside that need to be replaced.
The input drum of these are very weak and break easily.

DeltaPace77

Another mention to "Aces" core comment. Had a chevy pick up with 700R4 tranny, and one day really started acting up badly. Had a buddy tow it to his tranny shop, and turns out some internal hard parts broke loose, basically turning the case to scrap. Outer appearance looked fine, but not to pretty inside. Only mention this, as good to know some history of what you're getting.