hgiljr

Hello all. I have been searching for my first muscle car for some time and came across this one. What do you all experts see wrong with it? Your feedback is appreciated. Thanks
http://miami.craigslist.org/brw/cto/4640197005.html

Octania

I see a no-AC car with AC alternator position. A few other tidbits of incorrectness. Looks like a solid start. Drive it as-is or fix all the snafus and have a show car...


*sigh*

"Contact: Jesse Solomon
Phone: 954-68two-467three
Or after 6
954-four65-6415

Year: 1966
Make: Oldsmobile
Model: 442 Holiday Coupe
Miles: 96,194
Vin: 6Z117803
Color: Tan/Gold

Description: This is a matching numbers 442 Holiday coupe. The vehicle was repainted about 10 years ago and it still retains a great shine. A 442 this clean is not easy to find especially with matching numbers and in this condition. The engine compartment is mostly original and clean. It has a later model quadrajet carb and an aftermarket air cleaner. The power steering is smooth and the vehicle runs very well. There is a bit of rust on the passenger door bottom corner and the front of the hood on the vehicle as you can see in the photos.

Interior: The white leather seats are in excellent condition along with the gauges. All gauges are functioning properly. All of the vehicle glass is in very good shape. The dash has to small cracks (see photos).The windshield channel has a bit of rust.

Exterior: The paint on this car is in very good condition. The body is almond beige and the top is Sierra Mist. The car looks good over all with an exception of a small bit of rust on the hood and passenger door corner.

Drivetrain: The factory 400ci engine is still with the original chassis. It is mated up to an automatic transmission on the column. The engine runs well with no smoke or misfiring. The transmission shifts smoothly.

Key Facts:

The model identification plate or cowl tag(black):
1B: 1 - built in January 1966 B - 2nd week of January

ST 66-33817: 66 - 1966 3 - Oldsmobile 38 - F85 Cutlass 17 - Holiday Coupe(hardtop)

BODY BF2932: BF - built in Fremont, CA 2932 - sequence number starting with 1001

TR 987: White Bucket Seats

Paint VT: V - Almond Beige T - Sierra Mist(hardtop)

ACC: 23240 - Options

The Vehicle Identification Numbers(VIN) plate(silver): 338176Z111803
3 - Oldsmobile
38 - F85 Cutlass
17 - Holiday Coupe(hardtop)
6 - 1966
Z - Fremont, CA
111803 - sequence number

Engine Block Number: 390325E - identifies it as a 400ci used in 1966

Engine Unit Number: V107294
V - identifies it as a 442

'QR' tag on the engine oil fill identifies it as a 400ci with 4 barrel carburetor, automatic, no AC"

hgiljr

Is the car in such ballpark range or how much would it be worth?

edzolz

Why did they go to the trouble to do that nice of a restoration and leave the steering wheel like that with huge cracks in it. It could be easily re-cast by a professional. And the outside mirror is not like the one on my buddies one owner 66 442 that has never been removed.

oldcutlass

Personally, if it looks and runs in real life as it does in the pictures, it's a great deal. For a few dollars of personalization, you'll have a great car.

L69

Super deal if it looks as nice as pics and runs as nice. Price reflects 64-67 not being high dollar like a 70. I love 66-67 so to me it works out better lol. Also. The cheaper price is part in my opinion cuz the column cranker. Everyone wants a stick car or at the very least console auto and not some converted mega shifter stuff. I have always had better luck luck selling console cars versus column crankers as I call them. Takes the sporty feel out of them. Reminds us of our parents. Lol. Super deal on a pretty car

joe_padavano

Actually, since this is a Fremont car, that alternator position may also have been used with A.I.R (long since deleted).

Unfortunately, since the tag is a repro, it's meaningless.

Also, keep in mind that Fremont cars are the easiest to clone, since the cowl tag does not identify it as a 442.

Octania

Therefore, it is "numbers matching"

Well, as much or as little as anyone can prove, anyhow.

I would be wary of underside/ frame rot, hidden under the newish paint. Even CA cars can rust. In-person inspection on a hoist would be a good idea unless you want to accept the possibility that the first thing it needs is a frame.

hgiljr

How do you know the tag is a repro? On thing that caught my attention is the #36 written on the firewall passenger side in the engine. It reminds me of when junk yards number certain parts. Anyone see and have ideas of why that would be there?

Octania

"How do you know the tag is a repro?" - based on the refreshed engine, that's an educated guess assessment. The chance that the factory original PAPER tag is still in place and looks like that is about zero. Evidently they bought the Inlyin' Bubes fuel line and when they found how it "fit" resorted to chunks of rubber and an extra filter... Heh.

66400

Oil filler tube is not original to the car as it's a twist on cap 68 and newer style.

Tail light bezels are very pitted and poor lens. Are they a clue to the car's past life?

Trunk painted in wrong color, plain black spare wheel indicates that SSI wheels where a recent addition to the car.

Generic aftermarket mirror.

All issues mention are easy to correct.

Henry

hgiljr

Thanks everyone for the great info. Did these car even come in two tone or does this say it had a vinyl top at some point, then removed and painted different tone as they couldn't match the paint? I do see in one interior picture of the passenger back side, on roof pillar, near coat hook some yellowing which to me would mean a water leak.

So all in all, how much would be a good offer to give for this car?

66400

Cowl tag will have paint codes to verify if painted or ex-vinyl top car. They were offered with two tone paint combos so it's likely it's factory.

Very uncommon color combo on this car.

White 49 yearold headliner with discoloration would not concern me very much.

Henry

oldcutlass

You can offer whatever you like. In it's current condition if it's as nice as in the pic's and runs good, he probably won't take much less.

therobski

x2 Oldcutlass, for that kind of money does it really matter what is not original on the car? However its great to have Club members here that share their knowledge-details about Oldsmobile's. Great driver material.

wmachine

If it is important to you that it is a factory 442:
1. Ask him "specifically what numbers match what?". From what has been presented here, it is highly unlikely there are any numbers that match anything in any meaningful way. Meaning he is using the term "matching numbers" without knowing anything about what that means.
2. Is there a Protec-O-Plate? (the metal stamped plate in the back of the Warranty booklet that comes with the car) If so, that will contain information that will verify that it is (or is not) a factory 442 (and more good info too). If there is no POP or any other documentation, then you will not be able to verify that it is a factory 442, and will also confirm that his "numbers matching" claim is totally false.

The body tag info given does confirm that it carries the original colors. That 2-tone combination would have to be very rare.

hgiljr

I will ask, but one thing to point out is that this a dealer so I'm sure they know very little. One thing they did tell me today was that the engine has never been cracked open and from what some of you already pointed out, this statement wouldn't be true. Will see what they tell me and post back. Thanks again.

Oldsmaniac

Interior is vinyl not leather, Fit of front bumper not so good. As said tailights pretty bad, I would say do your homework that you already started.

wmachine

That's exactly my point.

hgiljr

Just communicated with the guy and No protec o plate... Supposedly motor matches car and never had a vinyl top.

66-3X2 442

The cowl tag tells us it never had a vinyl top with the T upper code. If it had a vinyl top,it would have been a number instead of a letter.

wmachine

So as suspected he doesn't know what he's taking about. There is no (other) way to match the engine to the car. Again, what number matches what?

steverw

I would say put it up on a lift and look carefully at the bottom floor pans and frame for more rust, rot, repair. If you see the floors have been patched thats ok if they did a good thorough job. If your not comfortable checking this yourself maybe they will let you take it to a mechanic to have it checked out or a body shop. Not sure about 66 taillight housings but the lenses are reproduced. The heads should be "B" heads in 66 i believe. Look at the very left end of either head when your standing at the side of the car , same side as you see the spark plugs, you should see a letter, it should be a "B".
The oil filler tube could have easily been replaced with the wrong one but functional. The V100,000 unit number is correct for 66 too i believe, V 200,000's for 67. A 442 should have boxed rear control arms. If it really has never had the engine opened with 96,000 miles it probably needs a timing chain and gears, although i guess that can be replaced without "opening" the engine, but i would ask if it has been replaced. He might not know.
Other wise its a beautiful car, the money is great in my opinion unless you find alot of rust or other issues which i would definately check before you buy. If it checks out good dont sweat the small stuff, theres alot of guys here with good parts, alot of reproduction parts, and alot of very smart and nice people here to help you with your questions.
One other thing there is no way to prove that motor came in that car except if the date codes are correct and i believe the protect o plate if it were there.
Good luck

lunaboy

ok... and read the last line or the small print as they say " QR tag on the engine oil fill identifies it as a 400ci with 4 barrel carburetor, automatic, no AC" very nice...
someone please help me out here. The Cali cars with no 5v... first thing first- before bothering to lift it up in my mind; would be to see if it ever had cutlass emblem holes in the rear quarters behind the seat panels; only because no mention of a Potecto Plate verification. I have some V heads for sale for 66 442


most likely legit but ?

TK-65

Check under it for the 442 specific frame, and if you can see the VIN on top of the frame rail you can be certain its a 442.

lunaboy

Checking the frame part number is better then having the owner remove the rear window interior . The vin on the other hand is on the top drivers side frame under the door area. No room to see or wire brush to inspect unless it's clean and your good with a mirror.

L69

X2 on the frame but I believe the stick cars whether option w29 all had ao smith frames and the autos had the Parrish frames with the nice tow hook up front

Run to Rund

How does the VIN on the frame tell you it is a 442? The 442s did not have special frames. Probably only the AO Smith frames came with the welded on Z bar bracket for stick cars. Automatic 442s could have either Smith or Pontiac frames. Parrish frames were for the big cars.