zl1 camaro

Good day to all the smart OLDS people out there. I have a 66 442, at least I hope it is. Now is a fine time to worry about this now that its mine.. This is a calif car so the 5v on trim tag is not there ? You probably know my next question Can you tell me how I would know for sure this is a real 442. Something about the clip on the frame rail for the main & return fuel lines and front brake line clip I think. I am so confused.. THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ALL YOUR HELP.....If this is not a real 442 they did a great job hiding the fact...

66-3X2 442

The stigma with Fremont built units is if there isn't documentation it's a clone. That's pure BS but that's the way they are perceived. Some things you can check
3/8 fuel supply line & 1/4 return line. Non 442's do not have the return line
The front brake line is different than a Cutlass. The Cutlass crosses the X member in the front where the 442 line turns to the rear and crosses the rear of the X member.
The obvious 442 trim .
You need to purchase a PIM/assembly manual that help you see some of the differences. Hairy Olds on this site has the absolute best manuals.

zl1 camaro

THIS is good news,my car has a 3/8 & 1/4 " fuel return line,the front brake line does go on the back side of frame [crosses] not in front. I wish there was something on the trim tag.....ONCE again thanks so much for your smarts !!!!!

66-3X2 442

It's not smarts, it's experience. The fact is every Fremont built owner wishes there was a way to tell by the cowl tag but there's not.

zl1 camaro

I guess I am one of the one's that wishes. I do feel better after what you told me with your EXPERIENCE however. This car also has the trac pac, oai, 4:11 M20, radio, heater a/c & steering delete & trunk battery. Thanks again guy.

Koda

This is correct. Not all Fremont 442s are clones, but near all 442 clones are Fremont cars.

Rallye469

The 66 & 67 didn't have different(HD) frames, or multiple holes for the upper cross member like '65's?
There was nothing different about cutlass & 442 frames those years?

I feel like it might be harder to clone a 65 I guess.

66-3X2 442

The 66 cars used 2 different frames. The A.O. Smith (manual shift) and the Pontiac (auto shift) frames. I know the Smith frame had the multiple mounting points for the rear upper control arms. The purpose of the different mounting holes were to allow the upper control arms to be raised to allow the pinion to be lowered. When the pinion is lowered it allows for more rear axle wrap up and not let the drive shaft to go beyond center. It's known as negative pinion angle.

CANADIANOLDS

did someone on the assembly line take the manual shift cars out for a rip and then adjust the pinion angle?

or was”the purpose of the different mounting holes were to allow the upper control arms to be raised to allow the pinion to be lowered” by the owner?

you really think GM planned that?

CANADIANOLDS

Be wary of undocumented cars..that’s all I can say.

if you think a fuel line or brake line proves it’s legit..you are a fool. Well, unless your are the owner who is desperate to prove it..

66-3X2 442

The control arm placement was done on the assembly line and for what transmission usage was used. Yes GM planned it that way because it's in the PIM. You questioning me or GM?

Squarebody442

Fuel and brake lines in addition to boxed lower control arms and sway bars, though found on 442 can easily be added or removed. As previously mentioned only original dealer paperwork including the protecto plate can exclusively document vehicle leaving the factory as 442. Remember 442 option in 66 could be ordered on 5 different body styles from base f 85 to top of the line cutlass. In summary there is no replacement for paperwork and all who have been around for several decades understand many recreations exist and are undetectable.

zl1 camaro

Sounds to me that everything I read here I have a 50-50 shot of having a real 442. Not many people kept there POP or even the original bill of sale. I do know this is 53k mile 2 owner & I am the third. Which again proves nothing. The only thing I have going for me is the second owner did show proof this was a calif car its entire life till 2009. He took photos of the car coming off the trailer & all looked legit, such as paper work, insp's,dealer paper work with mi, etc etc. But I do appreciate all the feed back from all that replied...I learned lots, much different from a 69 camaro Z/28 OR ZL1

Rallye469

Any chance at finding the original owner?

66-3X2 442

All you can do is satisfy yourself about your cars pedigree and don't pay attention to the naysayers. I would guess less than 5-10 % of pre 72 cars have any type of documentation. Does that mean that 90 -95 % are clones? hell no it doesn't.

zl1 camaro

I have reached out to the last owner to see if we could do that but have not heard back from him yet... IN my heart I really do believe this is a original 442. [[[[ Atl least I sleep better at night thinking like that.]]]]

zl1 camaro

I like the way you think mister !!!!

Andy

^^^ This….exactly correct Mike..I am sure there are a few but I have NEVER seen a 66 442 with a POP card and original window sticker/ invoice.. If we went by that edict chances are you would never be able to buy one. OP, as said, you have the info you need, enjoy that car to the fullest..

zl1 camaro

The last 2 post make me feel much better, thanks for the uplifting news !!

Koda

It also depends on who is selling it. Old guy, decent price, older restoration, owned it forever, no bull***** yeah, it's real. Incorrect resto done half *** by a flipper who pressures the hell out of you and does it for a living, be more suspicious.

zl1 camaro

HI there again,I don't want to beat this topic to death, but YOU seem very knowledgeable on these 442's. A good friend of mine told me that all 442 's had boxed trailing arms, is this true ? Mine does have this. Thanks again for your time & brain power..

joe_padavano

In 1966 all 442s came with boxed rear arms and a rear sway bar. These parts were also included with the B07 Police Apprehender package, and obviously can also be bolted onto any F85 or Cutlass, so the presence of boxed rear arms is a "necessary but not sufficient" item.

zl1 camaro

Thanks again for your time, it seems like everything on this car points to a 442, but again anything can be added on....

cfair

Best of luck to OP from a guy who lives near Fremont.

I wonder if so many CA cars got cloned since we don’t salt the roads here? The 60’s and 70’s cars live on here, even if Sacramento would like us to scrap ‘em

I’d guess many more Cutllasses survived in good shape in our mild weather.

TK-65

There’s less clones out there than people think. It takes a lot to clone a car to 100% accuracy. And those doing the cloning pretty much don’t know what goes into making one 100% accurate. Adding a 442 badge to a car is hardly “cloning “ it. Nobody changed brake and fuel lines to clone these cars. Nobody is swapping frames.

66-3X2 442

The fact is in 1966 the 442 was an option on a Cutlass or F-85. Nothing in the vin tells the story if it's a 442 or not. Options can be added,so if a guy wants to add the 442 option to his Cutlass or F-85,nothing wrong with that. Just enjoy your car.