Just wanted opinions on what people think is the better motor for towing a camper with. A buddy just dropped off a 425 so I have three to choose from for a Vista. Thanks...any input would be great!

 

Think I will open it up..the next in line would be an Olds 403 out of a Buick estate wagon..lol

 

Either of the BBO would work IMHO. Torque is king when towing so for my money I'd use the 455.

 

You're going to need to define your needs. Hills and a big camper? Big engine, but bad mileage. Little camper and flat ground? Maybe smaller engine but better mileage.

 

Agree with Koda...what are you towing, what does it weigh, hilly terrain, distance, etc.? The big block will have more torque; but, may be way more than needed. If the towing demands are light duty, use the engine that is in the best condition.

Good luck!!!

 

If by towing, you mean Real Towing, then the 455 is your engine.

The 425 is a great motor, but the increased stroke of the 455 will definitely be appreciated when towing.

I never towed a trailer with a 455, but I can tell you that I did once have to tow my girlfriend in her '80 Capri (about 2,800 lbs) with my '68 88, with a 2.56 rear, and I actually, literally, no exaggeration, could not feel that the car was behind me.

- Eric

 

As the old saying goes... "there is no replacement for displacement".

 

All types of terrain, and the trailer is a 14 1978 Rover..tandem axle...not sure it's weight. The Vista has a 350 4bbl (1969) 400, with a 3.08 posi...ty for the input

 

A 14' travel trailer is not super heavy, and I'm sure you could tow it without any great drama with the 350 (especially if it's high compression), but you will definitely feel the engine straining and working at times.
With a 455, the sense of strain would be minimal, and you'd probably be able to step down a numerical axle ratio (or not need to step up a ratio) in order to do it, which could render equivalent fuel consumption for the two engines.

- Eric

 

You can try and tow it with the 350 and if you feel it isn't sufficient drop the 455 in it.

 

My 2000 dodge durango has a wheezy 4.7 with 3.55 gears. It towed a 3/4 ton 69 gmc with no issues. I was actually impressed lol. The 350 can do the job so can the 455 just depends how you go about that will make the combo work well for towing.

 

How tall is the trailer. The larger the area of the front of the trailer, the larger the parachute you will be pulling. Not always size and weight, have to take into account wind resistance when pulling a trailer.

 

x2

 

I realize the question was which engine but don't forget the trans cooler. Let us know which engine you choose and how it performs. Good luck!!!

 

Good point
The trailer would be about 4 feet above the car.
Would a cooler be necessary?..umm, never put one in an older car...
The Vista arrives next week from sunny Florida...the trailer is buried in snow in my yard lol !

 

455 with low rpm cam, performer intake, well tuned Rochester carb, tall tire & 3.08 gears will get you tireless towing.

 

A cooler is always recommended when you are putting more stress on the trans, be it racing or towing.

 

I'd do it.

They're cheap, and sustained transmission oil temperature is one of the best predictors of longevity.

- Eric

 

One of these will do it!!!

Like Blue said no replacement for CID. The 350 will do it but will need to spend more time in the higher RPMs to accomplish what the 455 will do with greater ease at lower RPMs. Why? The 455 has the most torque down in the usable RPM bands. Less revs equals less stress on the engine and better efficiency. The 455 will pull the hills with greater ease...period. The drive will be more pleasurable as well not having to fight the low torque 350/403. The 425 isnt a bad choice either but will be harder to buy parts for.
Be sure to upgrade the trans to freshened up TH400 with a properly plumbed external trans cooler if you go with the BBO.

 

For some years (I don't think Sammy mentioned the year), the only automatic transmission available in the Vista was the TH400.

- Eric

 

69...

 

I bought a 70 Vista Cruiser for parts that had a 455 w/ Turbo 400. (They were removed when I got it) But it had a huge welded on class III trailer hitch and trailer brake controller on it. I was told the original owner puled a large travel trailer with it. I was surprised it had a 2.56 rear gear in it. I guess the 2.56 was standard w/ the 455. My 70 Vista has the 350 4 bbl w/ turbo 350 and 3.08 gear. I have pulled a utility trailer but never a travel trailer. I'll bet the 455 w/3.08 gears would work really nice.

 

TH400 was the only automatic in the Vista that year.

- Eric

 

455 / 365 HP: 2.56 standard, 2.78 and 3.08 optional.

- Eric

 

What year and compression is the 455? Would it be built to your specs? An early 455 would be a great performer; but, a later one not so. There is a major difference in performance between the early and late versions. I'd prefer an early high compression 350 over a late, stock, emission laden 455.

 

you are forgetting about the fabulous 1971-1972 G & GA head 455s that came with 8.5:1 compression. A well chosen cam, a performer intake, a new timing chain & then drive it like you stole it. They make great towing engines and run all day long on pump gas.

 

Personally, being a prolific 'tow-er', I would opt for a proper rear axle more so than the engine choices. My previously last chronological olds was a 91 vista (aka chevy caprice wagon with a rocket badge on the hood) with the efi 5.0. At 170hp it was ...meh, but what made it acceptable to pull 'Chris' was the 3.23 rear end and all the KC4/VO5/G66/G60 etc goodies in it. I did get her over I80 up 'high-point' in PA at acceptable speeds, but this would not be my goto tow vehicle on a long term basis.

my current regency, albeit with 180hp and a much more palatable 320ft, I would not tow a lawn tractor with due to the 2.41 axle.

You will need a 3.08 AT LEAST, 3.23 preferred, 3.42 dream which of course necessitates an OD tranny and no amount of 2004R building will make it acceptable to tow (sorry folks, the insides just aint up to it on any planet)

So unless you wanna adapt the crap out of a 4L80/TCI combo or a 700/4L60, you are stuck with a 400, a proper axle and lousy mileage 24x7

years ago I did an article for Trailer Life using a 1985 Pontiac Parisianne wagon (aka a caprice wagon in woodgrain with an arrowhead on the hood) using the 305/700 combo and a 3.08 and concluded that 5000lbs was the absolute upper maximum for these cars if you wanted anything to last.

You dont say what year vista, but you did say the word 'camper' and unless this is a popup or a tear-drop, proper hitching and OTHER mods are going to be of particular concern to you. (for one, the hitches are becoming just about unobtanium - but if you must, think 'Putnam' and check Jegs (yes Jegs) for current options)

FWIW, my last truck restore when I exited that biz was a 1981 F100 with the 6 and a SROD stick. However my restore included a 5450 spring upgrade over the 4700 and a 3L55 8.8 over the open 2.50 9 incher and of course a modern clutch. It was fine for the 4000lb 24ft sunline we owned at the time, IF I was content with keeping it at 55 or less (50 preferred) on the back roads and didnt try to hammer up the hills. 125hp only goes so far....so todays Mantra that everyone must have 300hp and be able to do 70 up the grapevine is hoo-wah. YMMV, dont try this at home, prefessional driver closed course - and all the other disclaimers.

Give more info on the project and I can see if I can dig out some parts numbers for the stuff you need/really should have

Edited to add....ok I just read down and saw more. The 400 is an adult tranny up to this task (but after 46 years I would yank the drum and replace the clutch fibres and seals....just saying) and the 3.08 is spot on. and heck, at 170(net)hp and 275(net)tq, the 350 should work just fine. anything larger will climb the hills and merge quicker, but, drink more.

hitching on that body is going to be a serious issue and the rear frame in the wagon is actually a weak point. a WD/hitch and brakes are REQUIRED.

as for the trailer, back then, they were heavy. dual axles means (in those years) 2 2500lb axles (unheard of on trailers today, but back then....) or 2 3500axles. Which means that once loaded with batteries, gas, crap, dishes, water etc, it will push 3500lbs as a minimum, 4000 more likely. not insurmountable, but at the same time, not a home depot utility trailer.

 

My 72 Satellite was purchased new to tow, with only a 318 in it. It towed most of its life. We owned a 1968 16' (maybe 18'? Its been a while) Mascot single axle. Weighed in around 4-5k fully loaded. The car never had a problem pulling it, but you were not doing 70 with it.
The car has a class 3 hitch, load distributing hitch for the camper, trailer brakes, and a factory tow package. The tow package comes with a heavy duty radiator, an hd 904a trans, and better gears (I think it has 3.55's). Additionally my grandfather added an external trans cooler.
I'm sure your 350 wagon in good shape with a good cooler and decent gears can tow just fine. Just make sure to have functioning trailer brakes, a weight distributing hitch (helps with sway too), and keep your speed down.

 

Thanks for the input.

Run down...1969 Vista, 350/400 with 3.08 posi. Standard brakes and steering. Hitch is solid and has trailer brake resistor mounted onthe wheel well in engine compartment. Also has a tranny cooler

The 455 has a tow cam...281 intake, 296 exhaust, valve lift 450 intake, 474 exhaust. Duration 280 intake, 289 exhaust...high comp Pistons , cast intake 4bbl quad...rebuilt. E heads, 1973 block


The 350 runs strong, needs timing chain fluid change.

 

I towed my boat with a 2004R, did Ok, many more issues with my 403 overheating. The 700R4/4L60E needs a hell of a lot and commonly fails in the 3/4 clutch pack towing. A 350 will do fine, I would add dual exhaust if it doesn't have it. Pick a size that will work with both motors. Going from a Hooker cat back with the cat deleted to a 2.5" exhaust with an X pipe and Sanderson shorty headers made a big difference in the hills towing my boat in my 88 CSC.

 

well, never ever tow in overdrive. the 700/4L60 is capable of a 7000lb trailer with the proper GCVWR and the proper axle (3.42 or 3.73 depending) - in a truck. the 2004r was only rated at 5000lbs (GCVWR and frontal area considered) with the 3.08 (4K with the 2.83? 2.73?) and only behind the y code because the engine did not make enuf torque to stress it even in a lock down condition. And even then the manual said no overdrive and 50mph max speed (like it could actually hit that....)

actually I take some of that back, you can tow in overdrive with a 4L80 (4L85 today) or E4OD (4R100/5R110 today) (ford). their design has them somewhat protected.

to the OP, Id like to see the underside of that hitch and how attached. There was a hitch used back in the day, and your car is back from the day, where the rear of it mounted using the bumper shock bolts. while it is a 2inch receiver and that makes people attempt crazy things, it was designed with almost NO load carrying allowed. It had to be used with a 500lb set of spring bars/trunions. that style was actually outlawed in the US for 2inch openings.

 

I agree, towing in OD is the problem with a lot of these trans. Pretty sure I was in D when our work truck's 4L65E died. My Dakota has the 42RE, another gem, like all the former reliable turned in OD junk 904 and 727 based transmissions. I had the dreaded weak reverse in my 4L60E, not original, a GM reman, many issues with them. Then again, I have seen too many TH350's fail under little abuse not towing anything.The 4L80/85E is much better, like many of the newer 6 and 8 speed autos.

 

Pic underneath...thoughts?...it will be going on the hoist next week...best I could do with a very sore back😔

 

it can wait, its winter, its cold, we aint going camping, BUT, that does in fact look like one of those hitches I referenced. Not saying you cannot use it, you just MUST use a WD system for anything over like 150lbs.