Hello everyone; I haven't posted in a long while. But here's what I'm trying to do this weekend:
What is it? 1967 Oldsmobile cutlass supreme restored a couple years ago. It ran a couple years ago during the summer, but when he went to crank it, it wouldn't turn over/ it wouldn't start.
He towed it to a mechanic and he couldn't get it to start either but said "the cylinders were low on compression"

This car is in immaculate condition but this guy doesn't care for it and calls it a pile. I'm pretty good with engines (I've got a 383 stroker I built) but would like some advice on how to break it free and see what will happen.

What's the bolt size to get the crank to turn over? And what's the best thing to put in the cylinders? I haven't tried anything yet but presume it's going to be stuck, just don't know how stuck.

The last thing about it is that there is some water or antifreeze on the dipstick. But I still want to see if I can free it up. Cause this car is totally worth it. Thanks!

 

pull the plugs and soak it with seafoam deep creep...expensive but works bette rthan anything else ive ever used..

spray it in the hole..set over night..and get a screw driver on the flywheel to turn...much more leverage than the bolt...if it moves.stop..spray again..do it in reverse...it may move freely when it breaks the rings loose..but take it easy...a little this way a little in reverse and it will break loose...

anti freeze on the dip stick cant be good..froze up and cracked or blown head gasket...that cant be good..sure it isnt just condensation?

use the sea foam it works..really well..ive save stuff no one could ever believe...it works

 

A 2 year rest should not result in a stuck engine. As already said it could be something major especially if there is indeed water/coolant in the oil. If you are thinking about purchasing the car do so with an engine rebuild cost included in the offer.

 

X2 with above. I would not even attempt to start it if there is water/coolant in the oil. You may do more harm than good. Pull it and take it apart.

 

Good point; I may just drain the old stuff, put "new" oil in to see if would run (if I got it to turn over) and then see if it leaks down again.
Thank you for the advice though

 

It's stuck from what the guy said; I didn't have tools or a breaker bar to test it, but what he did is grabbed the fan and tried to rotate the engine by the fan (yeah I know what you're thinking) so I haven't had a true test for rotation until tomorrow

 

I plan on soaking the cylinders; how well do you think PB blaster would work? The guy said he had some of that....
And thank you for bringing up the screwdriver to the flywheel trick. I totally didn't think of that; but it makes sense to be able to have more leverage that way. Definitely going to try to go that route if I can

 

pb sucks compared to seafoam..night and day..its how it wicks into the ring lands etc...it gets around the rings..worth the money and effort...

ive used PB...dont get me wrong..it doeswork...but ive use PB and it didnt do what i needed after 3 or 4 days..used sea foam and in 24 hrs it was free...been using it since

you want sea foam deep creep...why it works is in ts name.

 

Alright cool I'll give that a try then; thanks!

 

Pull the plugs and see if it rolls over. Could be many other things. "wouldn't turn over wouldn't start" are two different things. How confident are you the starter and its system are up to the task? If its been sittin where the picture shows it sittin it could be some chewed wires complements of your local rodents. Start simple...not all problems are catastrophic engine failure...

 

The wiring does look good in it; so if I get a battery to it; I'm confident that the system will work once it's free. If I get it to turn little by little I will try to work it free and then do an oil change of some sort before I attempt to fire it.
I may pull a valve cover off just for "more information"

 

If it does not turn, how does a mechanic say it is low on compression?

 

Get a good breaker bar. The bolt is either 1 and 1/16" or 1 1/8" I always forget which one, but it's one of those two, pretty sure it's 1 1/16, but bring both.

I was laughing when I read how he said the motor was "stuck"

 

So I put sea foam deep creep in over night and am going to try it again today. I tried turning the crank but it just seemed to try to tighten the bolt on the crank so I was afraid of doing that too much.
I popped a valve cover off and there wasn't anything bad looking underneath.
My plan was if I can't get it to turn over I'll pull the heads off and see what's going on and try to free it from there

 

ya cant use the crank bolt..ya just cant..youll end up with a broken bolt or stripped threads...


i understand the whole getting under the car flywheel thing is hard..but if you use it..it will snap loose..

you go one way and then back..it should move about 1/4 inch the first time it moves...after that..it will spin...i dont push it..especially if i am trying to save the motor..a little patience...it will break loose...

ive had them stuck so hard there was no hope...for those i pulled the intake and heads..removed evrything that drags..like timing chain etc..and it took a few days a little here and there and they came loose..just may take a little time...and get off the crank bolt..it just wont work..

ive had them move 1/8 in a day for 2 or 3 days once they are broke loose, its a day or 2 from spinning all the way...i just keep soaking..on tuff ones, i use the whole can..but they always come loose, and ive never broke a piston or rings..

 

So I did just that: took the intake and heads off and let it sit for an hour with the sea foam and used the starter; two clicks and then it spun the motor over!
There was fresh green antifreeze; so I think whatever maybe be in the oil is just a bit of condensation. The car has actually been sitting for 7 years. The motor looked very good on the inside. Not built up gunk at all. Rocker arms are still "silver" meaning no burnt carbon and the tops of the Pistons wiped clean.
So I cleaned the heads up and already got one back on. Tomorrow morning in going back out to finish assembly and see what she'll do

Oh and this guys got an '87 GNX original 40,000 miles with T-Tops in his garage.
I convinced him to let me put a battery in it, start it up and pull it out and I have it a wash.
Literally turned over 3 times and started right up after 1 1/2 year of sitting.
Incredible that I just met this guy 2 days ago

 

And I got the girl out there giving me a hand!

 

sweet...

 

Then there is a problem.

That bolt should be on with about 200 ft/lbs of torque. You should not be able to move it with an ordinary breaker bar unless you are King Kong.

If the crank bolt was not assembled correctly, and if the recent "mechanic" was unable to get the car to start, this guy has a track record of having idiots work on his car - all work done so far is in question.

Also, why are you doing all of this work on this car? Are you being paid?
If you are doing this to investigate the car prior to making an offer to buy it, you are making a mistake, as you will pay less for a car with a seized engine than you will for a good-running car that you just fixed for free because you are a "nice guy."

- Eric

 

Well kind of a long story and it was just to pass time; turns out the motor is too low in compression so it won't run itself.

Will a 455 mount in there with the 2 speed powerglide?

 

Did you do a compression test? Did you check the timing chain?

 

How low is too low? And, of course, you checked it before you removed the heads, right?
How fast was the starter able to spin the engine?
Did you wet-test it?
And, yeah, what about cam timing and type of cam?

A 455 will physically fit, but it will not be kind to the Jetaway (which is NOT a Powerglide).

- Eric

 

Actually a Jetaway will probably be ok behind a mild 455. They put them behind 400's in 65.

 

True, BUT... They only did it for one year.

- Eric

 

Nope they did it in 66 also. The T400 came out in 67.

 

Hmmmm... The TH400 was out in 1964/65 if I recall, just not for the A-bodies.

Still, they did drop the Jetaway for the BB after a short time, so I would maintain that it would not be the #1 choice.

Either way, we both agree that he CAN hook the 455 up to it if he wants to.

- Eric

 

It's an all stock motor. The engine would turn over at a good speed from the starter (we had a 200 amp battery charger to help give it "umph") i put new plugs in it; and checked them all to see if they all sparked-which they did- we turned the motor to TDC on the compression stroke and made sure the distributed was in time. It would turn over and fire but would not have enough "umph" to get off of the starter. And it had a ton of blow by even just turning the engine over. We tried starting fluid, adjusting timing as the motor turned over and such. I have a video of us giving a last effort at starting it where we go it to fire with the starter turning it but then it would backfire out of the carb.

I didn't check the timing chain but I would find it hard that the cam got off due to timing chain slippage or what not. The motor was pleasingly clean on the inside.

 

At this point I want any motor that'll fit in the car no problem. I assume any small block olds will fit in place without any modification right?
If I got a 455 and put it in; it wouldn't be run hard. Just a cruiser.
Mainly just trying to get the car moving and I can do as I want down the road

 

Any V8 should more or less fit right in.


403 would minimize the manifold and such changes while maximizing CID


Why have we given up on the 330 again?

 

 

I'm still a bit mystified by the "low compression" without a compression test (or without any compression test numbers) and by "blow-by" noted at cranking speed.

This is a low-mileage engine. You had the heads off. Was there any rust pitting to the cylinder walls?

- Eric

 

Compression test. Your not done trouble shooting yet...Your not following a great trouble shooting path. Pulling heads would have been about 10 items down on the trouble shooting chart...Your starting with the complex moving towards who knows where. Thats backwards...Start simple. You almost got it to fire. What about the fuel delivery system? Starting fluids great for shattering pistons. Dump some gas down the carb (a little) when it wants to fire off the starter. Whats the point gap look like??? You can have spark with the dwell angle way off.

 

+1 to all of this.

- Eric

 

Okay
I did pour gas in the carburetor directly; the fuel line is not hooked up from the tank cause more than likely the gas is bad;
I'm going to post the video on YouTube and send the link on here. As far as points go; I haven't felt with them. All the spark plugs have a good spark, so I dismissed the ignition system as being a source to the problem. What do I need to do step by step to diagnose it? I don't know how to check the points.

But honestly what else could I do before pulling the heads??
The motor was locked and the only way to free it was to pull the heads.
Yes I tried turning the crank bolt and yes I tried turning the flywheel. And no it did not turn until I pulled the heads and gave the Pistons a good spray and whack with the handle of a hammer. It didn't break free right away either.
Your saying I don't do this or that or I'm doing it in the wrong order. Here's what I did from getting the motor broken free:
Reassembled the heads and intake
Reassembled exhaust manifolds
Reassembled excessories (alternator and power steering pump)
Poured fuel into the carburetor and turned the key
Checked plugs and wires
Check for spark in plugs and wires
Checked timing
Used the valves and tuned the crank to true TDC on compression stroke and check distributer to MAKE SURE it was correct.
Fires but does not run

What else do I need to check (I know compression test; besides that)/ what else do I need to do.
all cylinders were hot leaving me to believe they were firing, but not enough.
Once again I'll post the video and link it on here if I can so y'all can watch what it was doing

 

who cares what anyone thinks..you dont have to justify your actions to anyone..so dont worry about it..just do what makes ya happy...if you enjoyed the work...and learned something...who cares.

i wouldnt waste another minute on this myself...

 

You need to have a fuel source to the carb for starters, I usually take a metal coffee can and mount a hose barb to it and set it on the fender with a hose to the carb. Be very careful when you do this. When you pour a small amount into the carb it gives it just enough to fire for a moment and its very rich and probably fouled your plugs. I would set the points at .016 and that will be close, don't worry about timing until you get the engine running, it should be around 7.5 degrees BTDC with the dwell at 30.

 

Here is the YouTube link
And if the quality is too bad I can re upload it later.
But are you saying this engine won't run without a fuel line to the carb? Meaning I need to have a hose going instead of to the tank in the car from the fuel pump but to another fuel source?

this thing should be able to give me a couple revolutions by itself with the fuel I put into the carburetor manually

 

I fixed your link. Yes, you need a fuel source other than from the tank. Pull the plugs and clean/ reinstall them they are probably black. You can run the alternate fuel source either to the fuel pump inlet or directly to the carb. It sounds like it wants to fire. Again the issue can be the timing chain, its worth a check. They were usually good till 60k miles with the plastic teeth.

 

How do I go about checking the timing chain?

And I can run a line from the inlet of the carb straight to a bucket of fuel? Or must it go through the fuel pump?

Thank you for fixing the link

 

Lets get a dry and a wet compression test on all 8 cylinders. I do find it hard to believe that an engine thats stuck doesn't have cylinder wall damage. Thats likely what your dealing with too...thus low to no compression... Google how to do a dry and wet compression test. If the dwell is off it will produce spark but it wont run if its off far enough. Bring the distributor points cam up on a high spot so the points are open as far as the cam allows...any one of the high spots will do. Now check the gap. It should be about .016-018". I like to have the distributor in a certain spot so I can grab the rotor and move the shaft back n forth on either side of the high spot to see that Im actually taking the feeler gauge reading on the highest spot possible. Be sure there isnt a large bugger on the points. Gently file with a point file if so. Clean the points with brake or contact cleaner...same for the feeler gauge. Dirt causes pitting. A dwell meter is the only way to accurately set the dwell but the above procedure will get it running if it is in fact way outta wack.
Tough to accurately trouble shoot online with out using all of my senses. The below YouTube is about as close to what you have that I could find in a quick search.