I just saw an ad on Craigslist for a 1977 Delta 88 pace car in Hackettstown, NJ. I looked at this car back in October of last year. It’s a solid car that needs work but it IS a legit pace car even though it doesn’t have the correct paint or graphics. The cowl tag shows the W44 code which all the 1977 pace cars had so it’s the real deal. The seller says it might be number 106 out of 2401.
My question is how can I find out the number of my car? I have the window sticker and dealer invoice for my car but as far as I can see nothing shows what production number it is. Where would I get this information? There must be a list of these cars just like the 1969, 83, and 84 H/Os.
I attached pictures of the invoice and window sticker. It would be interesting to find out a little more about my car.
thanks.

 

How does the seller know this?

You would think, and I'm only speculating here, but it looks from the invoice and window sticker that the pace car options were just options like any other (power windows, air-conditioning, whatever), and records were not kept showing how may '77 Delta 88s had air-conditioning, power windows, or any other option. Perhaps the same is true for the pace car options. There may not be any other information or records out there to find. But, as I say, I'm just guessing.

 

Well, that's my question. The seller could have been pulling the number out of the air (or somewhere else). I don't know. I remember going to a car show last year and there was a gorgeous 1984 H/O that the seller said was numbered ### out of the 3000 or so built. Where did he get that number? Did he make it up? I was just wondering if there was a way to find out. I know the cowl tag shows a build code of 04D, the 4th week of April. Just curious to see if it was early or late in the production of these cars.

 

He might have gotten that number from Hurst? Weren't H/O's pulled off the line and sent to Hurst to be outfitted with the Hurst options? That's a different thing from a "regular" option that was installed on the factory assembly line, which it seems that the pace car options were. I can see where Hurst might have kept records of how many cars it modified.

I would think that, in order for your question to be answered, someone back in 1977, at the factory, would have had to keep track of how many '77 Deltas were equipped with the pace car options. If no one did that, the record likely doesn't exist.

I see that you have the dealer invoice, which you probably got from the GM Heritage Center. Maybe they have information on this?

Here's a thought on something that will never happen. Presumably the Heritage Center has invoices on EVERY 1977 Delta 88 produced. All 250,000 of them. Was the pace car option available only on the Royale, or on the base D-88 as well? Was it available only on coupes, or was it available on four-doors as well? Whatever the answers are, someone could, theoretically, go through each and every 1977 Delta 88 invoice and note which ones had the pace car options. It would take a while, but it could be done. They could also note the order in which they were produced, so that someone could say "mine is number XXX of YYY". I'm guessing the invoices are all on paper and perhaps have been scanned into pdf form at the Heritage center, but they apparently don't have the information on them in some database that could be queried to give information like this. Now THAT would take a while to set up.

 

You could probably find out if your car was a track car, actually used at the track during the festivities.

So you're in Mass and the car was sold new in Washington state? That's a long distance between the two.

 

I thought starting in 1979 all H/Os were produced on the regular assembly line and not shipped out for conversions by Hurst. The 1979's were option code W30, and the 1983's and 84's were code W40. Technically, they were just options on the Cutlass Calais model. All of the "special" Hurst parts have GM numbers and are listed in the parts and illustration catalogs.

 

Don't forget even though they were options they were uniquely engined.


Here regarding the 1983 Hurst Olds. "The last 6 numbers (317432) are actually the sequential numbers of the first 1983 H/O."
https://www.hurstolds.com/numbers/numbers_04.pdf

And concerning your car from Google via Ai so take with a grain of salt till confirmed. "Yes, 1977 Oldsmobile Delta 88 pace cars were numbered sequentially. The American Muscle Car Museum confirms that these pace cars were produced in a sequential order. "

 

The H/O "number" frequently comes from the conversion company to do the final steps on the car. Demmer, Cars and Concepts, etc. '79 was done online, as noted. A straight Oldsmobile will not have that extra list.

People are fascinated by the production order, and it doesn't mean anything. Looking at the cowl tag can tell you if it was early or late in the run.

'84 H/Os have the list of the VINs and the order they were modified at the Hurst facility. Thus, the "number" of the car is available. A '72 H/O has a different list. All 200 and some convertible owners claim their car was a "Festival Car." Some old guy who doesn't seem to be totally all there any more has the "list" of the festival cars, and he was acting like he was going to share it, but he didn't. 95% chance it's bullshit. Does it affect value of the cars? No. We have most of the '69 H/O VINs and Karl Sarpolis maintains a good registry of the '68s. But, again, all these numbers are from the Hurst side.

Like said above, maybe the data could be crunched. A good scanner, image to text converter, a good program, could database all the reports and figure it out, but that's probably a 30 grand expenditure which no one will ever do. It is enough to know the car is 1 of 2401.

 

Yes, I believe it's because guys love their cars so much they want extra validation.

As well as knowing special cars and their manufacturers have gone out of their way to make sure the public knows. That a particular vehicle is indeed special.





Agreed !

One fact that surprised me when it comes to these type of numbers is when greater cars have larger productions than lesser more general transport vehicles. Case in point the 69 Supreme. 24,193 2drs vs 27,263 442s. This happened in 1968 as well, I'm figuring the 3rd generation of Cutlass is the only time this ever happened. Looks like giving 442s unique identities was a win win.

Anyway speaking of special cars Koda. I am chomping at the bit to talk Camry with you. And the fact that it's the best selling car by number of years in American history. Closing in on 30 years with only one 2nd place finish speaks volumes on quality alone. Would love to know how you guys at Toyota feel about this remarkable achievement. (have had a thread concept and template for a while now, may pull the trigger on it one of these days)

To fully encapsulate the qualities of this record. Us Olds guys have to realize Cutlass was Camry before Camry... 7 times the best selling car U.S 1975-1983. Then as we know they lost their way so badly, that they not only dropped off the perch but completely off the map. Camry has 4 times the success and counting.

Sorry to digress don't want to take-away from 78Cutlass4Speed's thread.