I am looking at a cutlass for sale that looks to be a 442 has 455/400 but Does not have trumpet tips or bumper cutouts. I am pretty sure the engine is not #'s matching. I have heard that the 350 rocket 442's didnt come with trumpet tips and cutouts but I am not sure. Everything else on the car looks to be a 442 or at least its a really good clone! Thanks!

 

455 yes cutouts, 350 no on the 72 442.

 

Nice thing about the '72s is the engine was designated in the VIN. If you want to authenticate that the car's supposed to be a 455 just look for X,V or U in the 5th position.

 

You can be sure. The ONLY 350-powered Cutlass to ever come from the factory with a cutout back bumper was the Rallye 350. No other 350 car with duals got the bumper, not even W-31s. I can guarantee that the VIN will show that this car was originally a 350 motor that has been swapped to the 455/TH400 drivetrain.

 

Probably true, but I'd like to know how you can make that guarantee without knowing more than what the OP 'thinks' as opposed to knows about the car.

 

The car is a 1972 442 without a cutout bumper. I doubt the original owner removed the cutout bumper and installed this one. Thus, the car originally came with a 350.

 

Means nothing Joe. This car is 43 years old and could have gone through numerous owners or rear end collisions and bumper replaced with what was available. As I said earlier, you're probably right but to guarantee something with no other knowledge of the car is, uh - a bit foolish IMO.

If the car in question is a 442 with a U code engine, it would have dual exhaust but no trumpets or cutouts. After all, in 72 the 442 could have any of the production engines offered. We both know only the W30 came with dual cutout/trumpet exhaust that year, so what does the OP have to offer up with more info? It's his first post so we don't know his knowledge of the brand. Would be nice to see pics of the car.

 

Sorry, that is not correct. EVERY 1972 442 (RPO W29) with BBO got the cutout bumper. Every 1972 442 with SBO did not. Period. If the car is not actually a 442, but only a U-code Cutlass, then it would not have gotten the cutout bumper.

 

Yeah that was my first post and I am only 15, but I do know quite a lot on the 1970-72 cutlass' and 442s. I was a little fuzzy on the 72 442 "option" but have it all cleared up. I did not end up even looking at the car as it was just sold. I am now looking at a different car. A 72 cutlass s. looks pretty bone stock, 2 owners, #s matching 350/350. Nice viking blue with 442 stripes 442 side striping and non oai hood stripes. Problem is distance. Car looks pretty good but is 5 hrs away! Maybe could possibly look/buy if they met halfway. Thanks!

 

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

 

This is a quote from 442.com that Joe and others signed off on. If this is correct, a '72 442 could be ordered with the cutout bumper and trumpet exhaust. So what is correct???


"With the 455, you got the cutout bumper and dual exhausts and chrome tips. ****The cutout bumper could be added to the 350 CID 442****
For a 442 convertible only, the interior emblem should be "Cutlass Supreme", not "442", as it was based on the Supreme body style.
GA heads, with automatics getting the 1.998" intakes valves and 1.685" exhaust valves. Manual transmissions came with the 2.072" intake and 1.625" exhaust valves.
442 was now an option package. It was not a performance option, but handling and trim. Code W-29 was the 4-4-2. Unlike previous years, you could check the vin to determine if a car was a 4-4-2 or Cutlass, but in 72 the 4-4-2 went back to an option. The only way in 72 to tell by the vin if you had a 4-4-2 was if it contained an X for the engine which designated the W-30 package, which by default gave you the 4-4-2.

There were only minor external appearance changes from 1971. 1972 marked the end of 442's with big blocks as standard. The 350 engine was now an option. The W-25 OAI fiberglass hood was optional on all Cutlass variations. All 1972 4-4-2's are the W-29 option (regardless of engine size).

The notchback ("57") body style was only used on the Supreme and the 72 H/O. If you've seen one with 442 emblems, they were not factory installed. Unfortunately, since the 442 reverted to an option package in 1972, there is not a unique 442 VIN. The W-29 442 package was only available on four models that year, the Cutlass sport coupe, two holiday coupes (Cutlass and Cutlass S, I believe), and the Supreme convert. Note, however, that there were notchback bodies made with the W-30 motor in 1972, as this was optional on the H/O. As a result, you could have a notchback VIN with an "X" engine code in 72.

The 442 trim package was available on the Cutlass (350 2bbl), Cutlass S (350 2 bbl), and Cutlass Supreme (convertible only, 350 4 bbl). The Cutlass and Cutlass S could be ordered with the L34 engine (350 4bbl), and all of them could be ordered with the L75 engine (455 4bbl). If you got a automatic trans with any of these you got 2.73 gears standard. You could order 3.08 or 3.23 gears with any of the engines with an automatic. If you had a manual trans you got 3.23 gears, period. The exception is if you got a W-30, in which case the gears were 3.42 (auto or manual) with 3.73 optional (auto or manual).

The OAI hood was a separate option, and the notched bumper came standard with the 455 motor.**** All small block cars came without notched bumper unless specifically ordered*** BTW, there was no additional cost when ordering different gears. The 70-72 442 wings were fiberglass, not aluminum."

 

What is correct is that you can't believe everything you read on 442.com.

Set the wayback machine for the early 1990s, Mr. Peabody. Back in that prehistory of the interwebs, the only on-line Oldsmobile "forum" was the now defunct Chubecto Oldsmobile Email Listserver. For those too young to have seen one, a listserver was a text-only email server where you sent an email to the listserver and it forwarded this email to everyone on the list. Diagrams were limited to ASCII graphics. (Yeah, this is dangerously close to an "in my day, sonny..." lecture).

Ancient folks like Chris Witt and myself would waste our time discussing Oldsmobile topics in these emails. A guy by the name of David Brown started compiling the emails and filing them by topic. This collection of emails became the FAQ.

I must compliment David on the work he did, but you need to understand that this was a unilateral effort. There was no real fact-checking and only David could edit the FAQ. For the most part the data you see in the FAQ came verbatim from emails on that listserver. The result is that there is an unfortunate amount of bad information in the FAQ, as editing was not really possible. Basically when we found an error, we emailed David, who either would or wouldn't make the correction. David credited the folks who wrote the emails he compiled, but we did NOT "sign off" on the final product.

Fast forward about 10 years or so and Bryceman at 442.com took over hosting the Oldsmobile FAQ. This was copied directly from the David Brown FAQ, again with no public fact checking and no real way to point out errors. Since that site has since become commercially controlled, there is even less control over that information.

The bottom line is that your question is yet another example of bad info in the FAQ. The comment I have made in a number of threads on the bumper topic still stands. The ONLY small block Olds A-body to ever get at cutout back bumper from the factory was the Rallye 350, period. It was not a factory option on small block cars in 1972 nor in any other year. It was not even available on W-31 cars. Those are the facts.

 

And the Rallye 350 cutout bumper was distinctive because like the front one it was sebring yellow urethane coated instead of chromed; which matched the overall color of the car and SS wheels.

As a side note, I think it would have been nice if the factory had offered the dual cutout bumper on ALL Cutlass models with dual exhaust. But that's just me. That's why I installed one on my 72 Cutlass. It just looks good even though it's not factory correct.

 

One thing is for sure, the only guarantees in life are death and taxes. Certainly not the order forms for GM cars back in the 70's. Fact is, it is possible to have a 350 car with trumpet exhaust, the assembly line could have ran out of straight bumpers, there could have been some added by mistake, some dealers may have let the customer check the box for it. My point is, it IS possible. No other make and model has been studied, revered, coveted, or faked more than the Chevrolet Corvette. Read the introduction to the Corvette Black Book. Gm couldn't document or hardly control the low production Corvette, I doubt they could regulate the production of thousands of Cutlasses. I am new to the Cutlass game but I have had Corvettes from LT-1's to ZR-1's to my present LT-4. I know there are Corvettes with options they shouldn't have been able to get, and they are documented. It was not a science back then, lots of documents were hand or type written, errors were made, favors were done. Unless Joe inspected every 442 that came off the assembly line personally there is no guarantee that a 350 Cutlass or two didn't make it out with trumpet exhaust.

And if there is incorrect information out there then why don't these Olds enthusiasts/experts come up with an official website - like the Grand Sport Registry does for Corvette GS's - for us Oldsmobile novices? I like this forum, people are friendly and knowledgeable, I really don't mind the "jabs" (Joe's word, not mine) and I learn something every time I come here. I did receive my service manuals yesterday and I hope to keep the questions at a minimum but sometimes you like to hear how others have done something, learn their tricks and get some tips....those are not written in books.

 

Were mistakes made on the assembly line? I'm sure there were. They were also EXTREMELY rare. The "special order" or "assembly line error" story is used repeatedly to justify some one-of-none car with equipment or configuration not documented in factory literature. As these cars increase in value, there are more and more of these stories fabricated in an attempt to eke out a larger profit from a mundane car. If someone has a one-of-none car and doesn't have ironclad documentation to back it up. don't expect much acceptance here. We've heard these stories many, many times.

As for documenting all this Olds information, feel free to start and maintain a website. Those of us who have been doing this for the last 20+ years on-line are frankly tired of writing and rewriting this stuff, only tho have someone pipe up and start posting "ANYTHING was possible, it was a factory mistake, yadda, yadda." There was an attempt to bring the Olds FAQ into a public forum and make it a Wiki. That lasted about a year, then the site went down and all that effort was lost. I'm not inclined to put my free time into fixing the info such a site again. Feel free to pay out of your pocket to host such a site or spend your free time securing long-term sponsors.

And frankly, after writhing this stuff over and over and over and over and over, you really get tired of people who are too lazy to use SEARCH and ask the question anyway.

Edit: I realized after I wrote this that the last comment could be misinterpreted. It was not meant to refer to mcox8051. Sorry for the lack of clarity.

 

While I am generally one to keep an open mind, and I agree that anything is possible, the scenarios you present for this topic are not realistic.

The Cutlass and F85 was the most popular car built on the Lansing assembly line. The 442 was likely the least popular (I don't have the numbers in front of me). Oldsmobile would simply not have allowed themselves to run out of Cutlass bumpers, and even if they did, installing a much lower-volume bumper to keep the line moving would only cause them to quickly run out of bumpers for 442s.

Putting a 442 bumper on a Cutlass by mistake would be more likely. However, I'm confident that it would've been caught by Quality Control and fixed. A Cutlass with its turn-down tail pipes would look bad with a notched bumper. It would be very obvious, and Lansing would not let that kind of thing go. I can't speak for the other plants.

Finally, there was no box to check. A customer could not order trumpet exhaust tips and a notched bumper on ANY car. They were installed on the cars which were supposed to get them, and not installed on the others. Period.

 

It happened with Corvettes of the era, and it could've happened with any car. I'm not saying they mad mass mistakes, I'm just saying it could happen...so don't make guarantees unless you were there for every car coming off the assembly line. Don't you know the answer to True False quizzes usually false if the question contains the words always and never. Period.

 

Exactly. The exhaust matched the engine configuration. And exhausts were pre-built ready to be installed. As Joe mentioned, the ONLY 350 engines that got the trumpet from the factory was the 1970 R350. The only others were 455 equipped 442's (have to say it that way because of 1972). I'm not 100% certain on this but I'd be willing to guess that the exhaust length and exhaust manifold angle on a 455 is slightly different than the 350, so a mistake like this should not be plausible.

 

I didn't make any guarantee. In fact, I agreed with you that anything is possible. So why do you continue to argue? If you disagree with any of the three reasons I gave you as to why such a mistake would be extremely unlikely, then please present your reasoning.

A FAR more likely scenario would be that a previous owner would install his own notched bumper and trumpet tips, using used parts from a wreck, new parts from the parts counter, or ask his dealer to do it for him.

 

Joe made the guarantee. Weird things happened with other cars and they could have happened with Oldsmobiles, that is all I am saying. I am speaking on my experience with Corvettes and I doubt quality control was much better on cars that cost half the $. Can't make 100% guarantees, that's ridiculous. I have my open minded and reasonable opinion and you guys have yours. I'm done with this thread.

 

And I stand by it. The car that started this whole thread was a 1972, allegedly a 442, with a BBO and a straight bumper. I guarantee that the VIN will show that it was originally a 350 car.

And I'm sorry, but again, I've heard waaaaay too many stories of "factory mistakes" and other things that peg the BS meter, all to justify an outrageous asking price on a one-of-none car. Feel free to believe what you want. There is still a flat earth society. I'm extremely skeptical of any such unverifiable claims about these cars, as every one I've ever heard has turned out to be BS. I don't claim to be a Corvette expert and frankly don't care about them. I do know that you can't use a Corvette as an example of something Oldsmobile did.