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I saw this car on EBay, advertised as a 1972 442 convertible with a matching numbers 455 engine. I don't remember rockers on a 442 car??
Anyone on our site own or know anything about this car??
I agree that the car is a U code with a 455. This car is not advertised as a W29, Therefore, This car may not be a 442!
The description calls it a "442 Cutlass Supreme" so yeah, it's advertised as a 442. Which is incorrect. I have never seen in my lifetime where someone added rocker trim on a real 442. I'm not buying it. Literally or figuratively.
I am not familiar with '72's compared to 1970. The body tag ties into the window sticker. The window sticker does not identify the option codes.
Did they offer the color for '72 on the body tag?
Did Oldsmobile eliminate the option codes on the '72 window stickers?
The description calls it a "442 Cutlass Supreme" so yeah, it's advertised as a 442. Which is incorrect. I have never seen in my lifetime where someone added rocker trim on a real 442. I'm not buying it. Literally or figuratively.
69HO43,
I agree with you on the rockers. Yet the trunk does not have "Oldsmobile" letters.
Last edited by twilightblue28A; October 27th, 2019 at 02:41 PM.
Window sticker for 1972 provided. No option codes for model year '72?
Twilight, is this from the car we are discussing in this thread or for a different car. It clearly shows the 442 option as well as other options, but the option codes are not listed are they.
Twilight, is this from the car we are discussing in this thread or for a different car. It clearly shows the 442 option as well as other options, but the option codes are not listed are they.
Thank you! You are correct. The description provides the options but the window sticker does not provide any option codes. I am not as familiar with 1972 as I am with 1970 models. The car is definitely a 455 matching numbers car.
I am not sure of the color Oldsmobile identifies as 65 on the trim tag in 1972. The car also has a black top identified on the trim tag "B." The window sticker also describes the car as paint code 65.
Another issue is the car is badged "442." The trunk does not display "Oldsmobile " which was omitted in 1972 442's.
And to further complicate matters the car has rocker mouldings, not seen on 442's.
Any assistance to clarify the inconsistencies is appreciated.
A question on power packages. 442s could come with K, M, U, X engine codes, I believe. X was w-30 and only 442 and certain Hursts. Is the U in a Cutlass S, in a Cutlass Supreme, and in a 442 package car the same engine and numbers?
Secondly, did the 442 hardtop, for instance, have anything else, performance wise, over the Cutlass S, with the same engine?
Location: Edmonton, AB. And "I am Can 'eh' jun - eh"
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Ok, just to be the elephant in the room - although I agree with the W29 delete on the rockers - that window sticker matches the one on the ebay car. Check the VIN on the window sticker and the VIN listed by the seller on the eBay site
The cowl tag is very close to the same as my car which is also a Lansing car built in April of 1972.
And yes, PNT code 65 (Flame orange) was a color choice for Olds A body in 1972
Koda - the U code in a Cutlass, Cutlass S, Cutlass Supreme, Cutlass Cruiser and Vista Cruiser were all the same beast. There's no difference in power ratings from car to car.
Last edited by Allan R; October 29th, 2019 at 07:14 AM.
A question on power packages. 442s could come with K, M, U, X engine codes, I believe. X was w-30 and only 442 and certain Hursts. Is the U in a Cutlass S, in a Cutlass Supreme, and in a 442 package car the same engine and numbers?
Secondly, did the 442 hardtop, for instance, have anything else, performance wise, over the Cutlass S, with the same engine?
Close...
For 1972, the W29 package included ONLY the FE2 suspension and the 442 appearance items (grills, emblems, stripes, chrome delete). You could order RPO W29 on the 3287 Cutlass Hardtop, the 3677 Cutlass S Sport Coupe, the 3687 Cutlass S Hardtop, or the 4267 Supreme Convertible only. The W29 equipment was exactly the same on any of these four models. W29 was independent of engine or trans choice, so any drivetrain otherwise available in these four models was fair game. That means the L32 2bbl motor with single (VIN H) or dual (VIN J) exhaust, the L34 350 4bbl motor also with single (VIN K) or dual (VIN M) exhaust, the L75 455 4bbl dual exhaust with either automatic (VIN U) or four speed (VIN V), or the L77 W-30 motor (VIN X). Note that RPO W30 required W29 and included more than just the L77 motor, though the L77 motor WAS installed in a small handful of 4257 and 4267 H/Os without the W-30 package. The other engine options were available with or without W29.
I'll also point out that when people badmouth the 180 HP net VIN 9 307 in the 1980s cars, the 1972 with VIN J 350 4bbl put out a pavement ripping 160 HP net in a heavier car with 2.73 gears.
The rocker moldings were specifically shown as deleted with W29 in all factory literature. From the 1972 Inspector's Guide:
Are we saying that this car is a 1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible with a U code engine? The car has a dual gate with a console. This car, according to the trim tag, is paint code 65, Convertible top is B. What color is 65? Physically, the car is badged "442" and does not have "Oldsmobile" on the trunk. The red flag, at least to me, are the rocker moldings. The car also has "442" on the front grill. The car is a Cutlass Supreme Convertible, badged 442, including the trunk?
The window sticker describes the car as built, although no option codes. If we exclude the window sticker, we are left with a 1972 Cutlass Supreme, U code, convertible with 442 badging?
The window sticker appears authentic- paint code, top color, and the options that are physically on this car, including the dealer.........
Last edited by twilightblue28A; October 27th, 2019 at 05:55 PM.
Are we saying that this car is a 1972 Cutlass Supreme Convertible with a U code engine? The car has a dual gate with a console. This car, according to the trim tag, is paint code 65, Convertible top is B. What color is 65? Physically, the car is badged "442" and does not have "Oldsmobile" on the trunk. The red flag, at least to me are the rocker moldings. The car also has "442" on the front grill. The car is a Cutlass Supreme Convertible, badged 442, including the trunk?
The window sticker describes the car as built, although no option codes. If we exclude the window sticker, we are left with a 1972 Cutlass Supreme, U code, convertible with 442 badging?
The window sticker appears authentic- paint code, top color, and the options that are physically on this car, including the dealer.........
I'm just presenting the factory literature. Draw your own conclusions. All of the options on that car (VIN U 455, dual gate, etc) were available on any Supreme convertible.
And this is why I think reproduction window stickers are BS. "Antiqueing" a document to make it look old is a well documented process.
As always your input is invaluable Joe. Thank you, sincerely, for taking the time to share your knowledge.
Twilight I’m a bit confused, you seem to have access to more pictures than I do for this (I think) flame orange 1972 U code convertible. I only see 12 in the main listing and none under the description, and I don’t see any of the trim/ cowl tag or the (authentic or not) window sticker. Where do you see these?
The more I look at this car, the more it appears to be a real 442. The thing I cannot square however is that bottom rocker trim. I will NOT say it's a definite 442. But if this is a fake, they are going WAY above and beyond. Rear boxed control arms, rear sway bar, and cutout bumper and general overall appearance makes me wonder. This rocker trim keeps ringing the fake bell though. That, so far I can see, is the ONLY thing not right on this car. Is this the unicorn car where the original owner said "Hey, it looks naked under there, put some of those chrome strips on it like that car over there." Who knows? Back then, within reason, they'd do just about anything to sell a car. Although I didn't see it on the sales agreement (assuming it's legit).
Another issue I find as a bit strange- all the pictures in the ebay ad are from "Streetside Classics" in NC from when they had the car. The car is listed currently in the ebay ad as from Washington state. This may not be a red flag in itself, but at the very minimum it shows laziness. I suspect it's a dolphin (flipper) who hasn't even taken the car out of NC yet. I dunno, simply speculating.
I've looked the car over very carefully best I could. The emblems are usually a dead giveaway when there have been holes drilled in fenders to add the 442 numbers. People who don't know 442's usually screw this up royally. But on this car, the spacing, levelness and overall placement of the numerals- if those aren't gennie 442 holes in the fenders and trunklid, someone really knew what they were doing. Even the "seemingly rare" non-W30 stripes you hardly ever see on 70-72 Cutlass/442s anymore seem to be placed very close to original. Some of the better ones I've seen. They're dang near spot on just like the emblems. And I've studied emblem placement as it's a detail item I pay close attention to trying to weed out fakes or non-originality when owners claim a car has been "untouched".
A previous ad where Streetside Classics was selling this very car (advertised for $49,995 and listed afterwards as "SOLD") had pictures of the "paperwork". The 71 and 72 window stickers did not have RPO codes on the window stickers. I've seen a few originals in my time and they all seemed to have one thing in common...the periods and the commas were heavy stamped. This one seems to have the same style of chain printing on the IBM printer. I also noticed, like other examples I've seen, that the printing strikes were not always even on EVERY character that was the same. i.e. the "E" would always have a light center bar with a heavy bottom bar no matter where it was on the label. That wouldn't happen on a chain print. Chain printers are semi-violent. If you ever got to see one in action, they print about a zillion characters per second (I exaggerate to clarify). The speed and pressure of each and every strike is not always exact between the characters. Except for the "dot" stuff, like periods and commas. They tended to be heavier on the late 60s, early 70s window stickers.
That said, the ONLY thing that has me puzzled about the 72's window sticker is the car price total. It's the first one I've seen that wasn't lined up perfectly. The columns have always lined up where the thousands, hundreds/tens/ones.cents always lined up over one another. Note when it gets to the total, this one doesn't. It aligns with a character above it, so it may have been a program slip or who knows. Or it could be the "mistake" showing a fake.
This is a repair order but no date or car identifier on it I can see. Note the "442" engine warning tag. Does this belong to this car? Hmmm.
Traded in a 68 mustang for this car. 4-28-72 on the date. Appears to match things. Protecto plate stamped 4-28-72 as well. I ran the numbers and everything adds up to the penny. 11.08% interest for 36 payments of $112.86.
Last edited by 69HO43; October 27th, 2019 at 08:46 PM.
Another thing strikes me as odd as well. May be nothing, but usually there's a theme with most people's selling patterns on ebay. Look at the feedback ratings...wtf?? Something isn't adding up.
Another thing strikes me as odd as well. May be nothing, but usually there's a theme with most people's selling patterns on ebay. Look at the feedback ratings...wtf?? Something isn't adding up.
Great investigative work tying this car back to Streetside. Same photographs that I received from the seller.
I can't get beyond the rocker mouldings. I feel this car is a beautiful U code Cutlass Supreme, unless and until I see a buildsheet identifying option code W29. Unfortunately, despite repeated efforts, no one has responded to my question regarding option codes omtted from the window sticker.
Finally, I have received multiple responses to my emails from the seller. Every email that I sent identified my email address and my telephone number requesting a call to discuss. No response,
The sellers emails do not identify the seller's name or phone number.
You would think that the seller would rspond with a call??
It looks to be a nice car twilight, but certainly has some questions still to be answered. As a U code CS it may stand on its own but of course its value would be significantly less than if it was a bona fide 442. I think 69HO mentioned in a previous post that 71 and 72 window stickers did not list option codes, just descriptions. But as Joe said those can be easily faked and created to look old. Although 69HO shared some great points regarding his experience with window stickers
Best of luck in your quest, I’ve got my eyes peeled for that elusive twilight blue ‘70 W 30 AC convertible - if you don’t move on this one! And yes it seems crazy that the seller wouldn’t want to talk on the phone to a serious potential buyer...
October 26th, 2019, 06:27 PM
