I don't know what does what on these old AC units.
My car is NOT all original, so I'm not worried about keeping it that way.

I only have the stuff that goes on the firewall.
I don't know what anything does, or what I'm missing.

Hoping someone can clue me in on what I have, and what my options are to get AC again.
I'd prefer the most efficient options for the lowest cost.

Here's the Firewall components, I don't know if I should rip it out or keep it.
2010OldsACcomponents2.jpg

Here's the hose that goes to something up front that's missing.
I do have the AC condenser cooling coils still hooked up in front of the Radiator.
I probably will need to replace it because it's VERY weathered looking.
2010OldsACcomponents.jpg

Here's where I think the AC Condenser would have been , empty bottom pulley.
2010OldsACcomponents3.jpg

 

you are missing the compressor that mounts to the passenger side of the engine, of course mine is missing the clutch

 

That's ALL I'm missing ??

Obviously the bracket as well.....can I use R-134 in this ??
Or whatever the newest stuff is ?

 

Here are a few photos from my '70 Cutlass S. I'm not an expert, but it appears from your pictures that you're missing the compressor assembly, the muffler and it's lines from the compressor & to the condenser (photos 2 & 3), and the receiver/dehydrator (photo 5). Each of these has its own support bracketry. You're right about the empty pulley grooves, that's where the belt for the compressor goes. If you've got a copy of the Chassis Service Manual, Sections 1A & 1C lay it all out in detail.

I believe using R134 is possible but it might require some modifications to the plumbing.

 

You are also missing the hose from the condenser to the compressor, which includes the muffler.

To sum up, you HAVE:

• Condenser (from darn near any GM vehicle from about 1960 to 1977)
• Evaporator
• POA Valve (probably no good now, and essentially unobtainable)
• Expansion Valve (available, includes filter screen, which must be changed)
• Vacuum reservoir
• Receiver / Dryer (must be replaced - available)
• Ductwork

You DON'T HAVE:

• Compressor
• Condenser to Compressor Hose with Muffler
• Compressor Brackets

I Don't See:

• Heater Fan Relay

The POA valve is usually replaced these days with a more modern pressure cycling switch
(the POA valve regulates the flow of Freon through the system, so that as the engine speed, fan speed, ambient temperature, and humidity change, the system cools as much as it can, but not too much.
The newer pressure switch controls the same things by turning the compressor on and off, rather than by regulating the flow).

You can choose to replace the POA valve and Receiver / Dryer with units designed specifically for either R-12 or R-134.
R-134 is a bit less efficient, and will slightly reduce the temperature drop obtainable.
R-12 is more valuable than gold.

Good luck!

- Eric

 

Thanks O's Car, so I'm guessing the Muffler portion I don't have is the part sitting
facing front and rear that looks like a big black roller on the fender well ??

THANKS!!!!

Now I just have to look these items up to see where they are on the car so I know what I'm looking at. That, or I'll buy the factory service manual as suggested. So most of what I DO have needs to be replaced anyways.

Kinda sucks, and now I see why so few people bother with keeping the AC functional. I'm going to see if I can upgrade this all , and get roundabout costs of what it will run. I'm starting to think this will probably get more expensive then I anticipated.

 

a lot more, someone hear had a post about upgrading their AC definitely companies out there that will do it for you but will add up

 

I'm reading on various forums that the long time ASE Mechanics are favoring the Sanden R134A compressors over anything Vintage Air or Classic Auto Air offers.

But between the 2, i'm reading Classic Auto Air is the better option.
Anyone here done a full kit that can comment on costs, or the Sanden compressor ??

Trying to figure out if I should buy the stock bracket for the compressor or not too.

 

Holy CRAP!!!!

The original A6 compressor with clutch was ~38lbs...
Albeit alot of places I'm reading it was built like a tank, and worked VERY well.
Especially the Buick guys. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=134892
I just can't imagine mounting a 40lb dumbbell to the front of my engine.

Checking this S6 replacement option out possibly....
Half the weight, but gotta look into it more.

http://www.s6compressor.com/products.html

 

Still is.

Just dragged one out of my father's garage to hook up "one day."
I'd pulled it out of a friend's '72 Impala before he junked it in 1985.

I agree that these pumps worked well. Their weight hanging off the front of the engine was one of the reasons why A/C cars have different front springs than non-A/C (and a non-A/C car without one may be riding high in front).

The problem with them is that they're power hogs. I forget the number, but they take a surprising number of horsepower to run. That was fine with engines in the 400ci range back in the day, but when engines got smaller, they had to come out with units that were easier to turn. Also, those lost horses used gas, and in the "energy crisis" days, it was cool and patriotic to pull the A/C belt. That led to the A/C not being used, the seals drying up, the Freon leaking out, and the systems being scrapped because their magic powers had worn off (A/C was too mysterious for the average Joe to actually try to fix). There was a belief then that so long as the belt was attached, the pump was on and was sucking power out of your engine and gas out of your tank (maybe even while you were parked), so disconnecting it was the first "power" or "economy" mod for a large number of people.

- Eric

 

One of the vintage A/C specialty companies was working on an Olds bracket for the Sanden pump, but a good metal fab man can make up something to adapt it to the factory bracket.

OE POA valves are pricey simply because they fit all the A-body musclecars (and Toronado/Riviera, so the E-body guys are screwed), but there are replacements available that turn the system into a cycling clutch system and are calibrated for R134a. I've never seen a factory POA system that adapted that well to R134a either- 50-55 degree air was about the best it would do. Updating the components will solve that. You might want to put a pusher fan in front of the condenser too, since R134a has to have plenty of airflow to make it work anywhere close to as well as R12.

Since the system has been opened for who knows how long, you probably ought to replace all the components, but you can probably get by with condenser, hoses, compressor, expansion valve and dryer. Still expensive, but since we've all gotten spoiled to A/C...

 

Well basically that was my next question.....

Looking for the Olds to Sanden conversion bracket right now.
I'm wondering if I should just have a completely new bracket made from scratch.
I've been looking all night since 9pm last night and it's 7am now.
Olds aftermarket parts are extremely hard to find.....and not common at all.

I don't even have the factory A6 bracket either.
I know they're not hard to come by though inexpensively.

We got a A/C shop guy on our 2nd gen Camaro forum.....I'm waiting
for him to respond to see what he knows of for Olds, if he sells anything.

 

Classic Auto Air makes a conversion kit for the sanden compressor - something worth looking in to. I am thinking about this also, due to being easier to turn (but will they cool as well?)

They can rebuild your unobtainable POA valve and calibrate to R134 or R12 (if you opt to keep the A6 compressor. I think the sanden will be happy with a std cycling switch).

Your missing dryer unit will not be missed, as it should be replaced any time the system is opened up (and yours has been open a while it looks...)

All the hoses, evap, and condenser will need to be flushed out since it has been opened for so long. It will not take much to create a clog or damage the compressor.

I plan to do this complete AC rebuild next year or so, and will most likely convert to R134. I will save my R12 stash for the '86.

 

I've got most of the parts you need including the compressor and all the Compressor brackets, Clutch etc. I'll put them in the 4 sale section once I dig them out. I took everything A/C off to take off some weight on my car and make it easier to work on. Mine are coming off the 69 in the pic though though so you'll need to find out if they hook up the same.

 

SWEEEEET Got my clutch fan off, and my Taurus 4500CFM electric fan working.......now my water pump is knocking

Just PM me directly when you do it.
I'm definitely going with a Sanden compressor and R134A when I do it.
Condensor is decent, but I don't want to risk contaminating the system so most of the stuff I'll buy new.
This forum moves pretty slowly compared to the others I'm on so there's a 99% chance I'll miss it.

I found a AC basic diagram on Classic Auto Air's catalog.
This helps TREMENDOUSLY because now I know WTF I'm looking at when people throw names at me. LOL

AutoACDiagram.png

 

Classic auto air makes the bracket for the pump. I removed my ac box (all that was left) and smoothed my firewall. I had planned on putting in their system last spring however $ became a problem. Maybe next spring.
Anyways, they do not make a perfect fit system for my 72 Cutlass, only Chevelle. They only offer a universal system.

 

since you decided ont he sanden, it will most likely use a cycling switch in place of the POA valve.
Whatever you do, don't trash the POA. Someone can certainly use it as a rebuildable core.

On your water pump, make sure the pulley is held securely on the pump flange and the bolts are not hitting anything below. You could pull the pulley off and make sure the pump rotates smoothly and the shaft does not wobble.

 

It just so happens I have a pic of what your missing. Cause I needed it too!

It looks like you still have the "top" hose in this first picture (suction line). The hose with the big silver can muffler is what is missing. Note: The muffler is completely 100% non-essential. They are put there for the same purpose as engine exhaust mufflers, to cut down on noise by dispersing the gas pulses. However it is integrated into the compressor fitting.




IMHO I would just stick with an A6, if I were you. Here's why: I scoured the net, high and low looking at every possible permutation of A/C equipment and I ended up snagging that old A6 to rebuild. They move enough btu's to to cool a small house! (Which is a fair bit more than even the strongest Sandens if I remember right.) And come on... is an extra 40lbs really gonna make a difference on the 600-some-odd-pound engine? The one true down side is that the front shaft seals tended to leak oil, but there is a new double lip seal that can be retrofitted that solves this issue.

They will indeed pump 134a just fine so long as the Oil and fitting seals used in the system are compatible.

It may be bad-form to link to another forum, but oh well:
http://www.autoacforum.com/ This is where I found the bulk of my A/C intel.

I highly recomend reading their FAQ's board, but this one in particular has been about the only place on the net I have found with the details for testing and correctly setting a POA valve for either R-12 or 134a:

Testing POA valves

And so long as the POA valve still works there is no point in spending $100 bucks on a crappy POA-eliminator kit. I can think of no reason you couldn't use the POA valve with a Sanden too. Its basically just a pressure regulator. And I seem to remember hearing that the increased cycling is hard on the A/C compressor's clutch.

Another thing old barrier hose is "bad mojo" since 134a can actually seep strait through older hose walls over time, even more so if it is deteriorated. The nice thing is though the crimped ferrules on old hoses can be cut/split allowing the hose to be replaced with shiny new and the old fitting can be reused simply crimping on a new ferrule

FYI: That A/C forum is actually ran by a shop somewhere here in Phoenix. Haven't dealt with them yet, but will prolly be calling them soon for at least some parts.

 

I also used the autoacforum to do my research. Rebuilt my system using R-12, works great. 40 degree vent temps.

 

Thanks for all the assistance guys.

I'll definitely check out that A6 with R134 option.

 

The Parts Place has just about everything you need.
http://www.thepartsplaceinc.com/ocat...&YearList=1969

 

Aces, was your car factory A/C? and how much suspension mod have you done? A/C springs are different and if the new RH isn't rated a hundred pounds or so higher than left, you might see the right side sag with an A6.

Just whatever you do stay away from a GM R4. Junk. Pure unadulterated unmitigated junk. I found this summer that the parts stores & rebuilders don't even want R4 cores back anymore.

Coltonis sounds like he's done the research here and I think an A/C shop in Phoenix would have their act together. I'm still not sure about a POA system and 134a, but if the POA valve can be calibrated for 134a, no reason it shouldn't work.

I can vouch for a VIR system (73-77) not liking 134a at all, but the cycle clutch/orifice tube system in me old gray wagon loves it- I can get 38 degree air at the vents on a 95 degree day, unless I get stuck in traffic. Then I swear at myself for not putting that big pusher fan on the condenser.

 

You can't tell by the pics ?? Yes.
Nothing to the front......however.....You know something ???
Ever since I got my car in 2009 I noticed the drivers side front sagged a little bit.
NO obvious frame damage, or anything, and under it all heights are the same.

I think this might be the reason now that you mention it.
Because the A6 compressor is missing on the RIGHT side.....
We've been thinking they put one wrong spring in or something.

NOW IT MAKES SENSE!!!!!!

 

On dialup in the sticks, pics take forever to load. I skipped over them. My bad.


Ain't it amazing how the factory engineers things to work together?