72xw30

Good day,

I have picked up a 1100880 37 amp alternator and a 1100890 55 amp alternator.

I am wondering which alternator my 70 442 would use. I would like sell the one I dont need. I want to make sure that I keep the correct one for my self.

The options on my car are air shocks, HD Cooling, 3.91 gears, and power steering, that's it.

I can't seem to find the information in my resources.

Interestingly, the 890 55 amp alt still has the 2 letter black stamping by the part number. Looks like the letters "AY" ?

Thanks in advance,

Sam

stevengerard

The only info I found was this document that looks like the 55AMP goes on AC cars with HD cooling, but I can't tell if that is "AC with HD cooling" or 'AC or HD cooling"

Edit: On further review it clearly states AC and HD cooling so Sam's car should use the 880

stevengerard

Here are images of Sam's alternators, never seen the stamp - wonder if that was for the line so they new which one was 55amp vs 37 amp

Also does anyone know of a 880 with a 42amp rating, what would that application be for

stellar

I don't think it ever came as a 42 amp with a 42 amp stamp. A lot of books show the 37 amp units as 42 when they are actually stamped 37.

stevengerard

I'll get a picture of the 42 amp 880

stevengerard

1100880 42 amp
date code 0E14 !970, May 14
On a 1970 W30

Could have been a replacement later on in its life or from another application (corvette?) or just another oddball item out of the bin.

stellar

I'll be darned. What is the date on that one? I have run across a few oddballs too. I had one partially stamped on the rear half of the case like they did in late 62 and early 63 and the rest stamped on the front half of the case. I also had 2 alternators with the same number, but one was external and one was internal regulated. These had different style cases one early and one later, so it wasn't a miss match of ends. The stamped ends were of different design. I guess anything can happen.

TripDeuces

My 70 Toronado had a 42 amp Alt. but I don't know the number

stevengerard

May 14, 1970 on a 70 W30 hardtop

tomsw31

Sam,
391 geared W30 cars got the 890 alternators. AY is the correct code.

stevengerard

is that because of the gears or the HD cooling?

Well I guess the gears required HD cooling correct?

stevengerard

Sam, Tom is correct I found the information in the Assembly manual section 6-1 page 93.

clearly states Heavy Duty generator and Engine Cooling - 1100890 4400 Only CODE AY

Also same page Heavy Duty Generator and Engine Cooling with Power Steering - 1100890 4400 Only CODE AY

stevengerard

here is the page

Glad TOm spoke up I'd hate to have had you dump the wrong alternator.

72xw30

Thanks guys!!!

Sam

tomsw31

Steven,
Yes you are right, the 391 gears required the 4 core rad option. It makes sense that a higher reving engine runs hotter. I am sure there is engineering logic for the higher amp alternator, as well.

507OLDS

I went around & around with this for awhile as well,and depending on how you decipher the information,you can wonder the same thing.From what I could gather,the only ones that got the higher amps,were the ones with AC and/or rear defrost,due to the additional load.
My 70 W30 4-spd with 3:91's,and HD cooling has the 880 alternator.One of my automatics,with 3:23's & AC,came with the 890.I'd be happy to have either one,and you have both.

tomsw31

Brian,
You raise a great perspective and I am interested to hear another interpretation of the data. What you say makes logical sense, but the assembly manual and inspectors guide lead one (me) to the conclusion of the 890 for heaving duty cooling applications. On the W31's they all use the 37 amp 879 and not the 777 (AC application NA on W31's) so the notion that 37 amp 880's were used on W30's with 391 is consistent with the small block W car with 391's. I would hate to steer Sam wrong with my interpretation of the data.

507OLDS

The way I see it,the type of cooling system does not have an effect on the charging system.Things like AC,rear defrost,power accessories,etc. would.

There are also two different 890 alternators,55A and 63A.I have owned both.The 63A came on cars equipped with rear defrost.

BlackGold

Steven e-mailed me and asked me to weigh in on this issue. (Sorry I don't hang out here anymore, guys, but I don't have the patience to deal with how slow this website is.)

The original poster says that his car has "HD cooling." By that, does he mean it has the Y72 HD coolng option? Or does he mean it has the V01 heavy duty cooling package which was automatically included with 3.91 rear gears?

The way I interpret the pulley charts in the front of section 6-1 of the assembly manual (which is the bible), I think that "HD Cooling" refers to Y72, but not V01. But I could be wrong.

Also, note how in the assembly manual the '890 alternator is always used with the 3-groove crank pulley -- which, I believe, is always used with the long-snout water pump, right? So in some cases, the engineers might have chosen to use the '890 alternator not because they needed higher output, but because then simply needed the pulleys to line up right.

I probably just muddied the waters instead of clarifying the issue.

By the way, the way I interpret the pulley charts, the word "AND" is not a logic AND requiring both conditions to be true. It's actually a logical OR, meaning it applies to cars with either option. Note how when they want to talk about a car with BOTH options they use the word WITH. Example: "Air Conditioning WITH Power Steering."

Mr Shifty Sidney

Are we getting HD cooling and Y72 confused? HD cooling came on cars with the low gears. Y72 is an option that includes HD cooling AND Generator. Option Y72 was not available on 442's with 3:42 or 3:91 gears. The low geared cars with 3:42s and 3:91s received options V02 and V01 respectfully. These V options were Heavy Duty radiators and were not available with A/C or Y72. This information is taken from a 1970 inspectors guide (dated 8/69), pages 29 and 30.

Also from the same 1970 inspectors guide is the following chart on pg. 38.
4400 Standard 37 amp code AT
4400 Y72 And/Or Air Cond. 55 amp code AY

As a side note on pg 29 under the W-30 option it states, Y72 is not available with W-30.

I have been down this path before with the HD Cooling and Y72. I think the confusion comes in when people think they are the same and they are not. A lot of non factory lit (and some factory)use these terms loosely. The information I have makes me think that Sam's car should have the 880 37 amp altenator. The information is consistant with the alternators on Brian's cars. It is also consistant with tomsw31 statement that the W-31's used the 879 37 amp alternator. I am NOT the voice of experience, I am only stating what my factory books say. Of course we know that is not true 100% of the time.

Don W

tomsw31

Thank you Brian, Brian, and Don. What you have stated clarifies alot for me. I must say that the "heavy duty cooling" aspect can be confusing.

pcard

Here is a summary I put together a while back. My research only dealt with the 1970 model year. Information came from the Assembly Manual, Service Manual and 442 Information Kit.

For reference the option codes
C60 = A/C,
Y72 = Heavy Duty Cooling and 55amp Decatron generator.

Factory Cooling Options:
Code VO1 was the Heavy Duty Radiator Code EC part number 3017107, 4 core – not available with the Y72 or C60 options, mandatory and available only with 3.91 axle, except it is mandatory with the 442 W30.

Code VO2 was the Heavy Duty Radiator Code FE part number 3014745, 3 core – not available with the Y72 or C60 options, mandatory and available only with 3.42 axle.

Code Y72 was the Heavy Duty Radiator Code ED part number 3017108, 4 core – not available with the VO1, VO2 options, not available with W30 or W31, not available with 3.91 or 3.42 axles. Mandatory with W33 (police use). Available with or without C60.


So if you wanted heavy duty cooling and you were not a 3.91, 3.42, or W30 you had to go with the Y72 option, which included a heavy duty radiator and heavy duty generator. It was available with or without C60 (AC).
There were different pulley requirements for AC, PS and "Heavy Duty Generator and Engine Cooling"), as illustrated above, but I cannot find specific references to the pulley requirements for VO1 and VO2. However, as Brian indicates, the logic behind "Heavy Duty Generator and Engine Cooling" may refer to Y72 or VO1 or VO2.
I can find different fan clutch requirements:
Application, Fan Clutches:
AC x (Y72 or performance) Clutch 403982, code OU
350 OAI Clutch 403982, code OU
SX AC, x Y72 Clutch 4949861, code OR
442, VC w AC, x (Y72 or OAI) Clutch 4949861, code OR
442 OAI, Clutch 4949861, code OR
Y72, Clutch 401797, code OS

x means except


It would be great if we could get some build sheets with these option shown. I have searched, but I have yet to find one which had Y72 without AC, which would speak uniquely to the alternator, pulley and clutch delivered components for the Y72 option.

I have been told that the reason the Y72 option included the heavy duty generator is either it was typically choosen for towing applications, where there would be additional draw for towing lights etc., or becasue it was an option code designed for use with the police cars, which had electrical draw requirements for lights and electronics. This is only anecdotal.

stevengerard

so what cooling code was for a W30 with AC - clearly a 4 core radiator

pcard

VO1 was mandatory with the W30

Mr Shifty Sidney

pcard

If V01 was mandatory for the 70 W-30 that would mean that every 70 W-30 would have a 4 core radiator. I do not think this is the case. What is your source of information for this?

My 70 inspectors guide states with the W30 option
V01 cooling for the 3:91
V02 cooling for the 3:42
C60 (A/C) available with W-30 option with auto trans and 3:23 gears. No special cooling option noted for A/C cars. There is a chart in the assembly manual that has the radiator applications.

In my previous post I stated that the V options were heavy duty radiators. I am sure there were specific water pumps and fans/clutches to go along with a specific radiator. I did not want to mislead anyone.


Are we hi jacking Sam's post? Sorry Sam.

Don W

stevengerard

I don't think so because they all kind of go together, seems we need to fiugure out a few things to be definitive. At this point it looks like Sam should have an 890 - are we sure about that. Edit: I put 880 by mistake sorry Sam

As for cooling I'd still like to know what was suppose to be on a W30 with AC - I am going to check the order form of the one car and see what it says. I do not elive the broadcast card says anything about cooling/alternators/rear axle etc. or at least I don't know how to decode it.

pcard

Don - thanks for questioning this. I was mistaken. I took my information from the Factory Option Guide, Section III page 11. Unfortunately when making my notes I made an error in the transcription.
The description of VO1 reads:
"VO1: Heavy Duty Radiator (Mandatory and Available only with 3.91 Axle) (Not Available with C60 or Y72 Options) 4400 with W30"
In review I do not know how to interpret the logic of the last part of that description.
Again - sorry for the error, and for highjacking the thread.

Sam: the Assembly Manual indicates that the 1100890 code AY is the right altenator for the 442 with HD Generator and Cooling (Section 6-1 page 93 as above).

Steven: Section 6-1 Page 92 of the Assembly Manual indicates that for 4400 the AY alternator is the choice with air conditioning. It does not talk specifically to the W30 otpion so I would take that to mean that it also applied to W30. The radiator chart indicated the "EC" 3017107 radiator, which is the same rad required in the VO1 option.

stevengerard

thanks so we all seem to be on the same page for Sam needing th 890, I put 880 in the above post by mistake.

All my research said an EC tank was the one I needed as well for W30 WITH AC. But you mention it says

"VO1: Heavy Duty Radiator (Mandatory and Available only with 3.91 Axle) (Not Available with C60 or Y72 Options) 4400 with W30"
In review I do not know how to interpret the logic of the last part of that description."

I think it means VO1 came with 442s with W30 or any car with a 3.91 but the 3.91 was not available with C60 or Y72

It is very confusing.

Mr Shifty Sidney

stevengerard

As in my previous post I think the 880 37 amp alternator is correct for Sams car. Please review the reasons I have posted for this.(Post #20)

As for a W-30 with A/C, there are no specific cooling options noted. I will dig deeper, but to be for sure you would have to know the gear ratio. This will dictate which radiator is used. This info should be in the assembly manual.

EC may be the correct radiator? But just because you have the same radiator as the one specified in VO1, does not mean that the EC radiator could not be used in any other application. VO1 was an option that probaly consisted of a specific water pump, fan, fan clutch, and shroud all part of a package.

pcard

I think VO1 is mandatory with the 3:91 axle, and the only way you could get it was if you had 3:91 gears. VO1 is not a W-30 only option.

As in my previous post I think the 880 37 amp alternator is correct for Sams car. Please review the reasons I have posted for this.(Post #20)


HD cooling and Y72 are not the same. HD cooling and Y72 are not the same. Y72 was not available with 3:42 or 3:91 gears in 70.

Don W.

pcard

Don: I agree with you here. Sam has the 3.91 gears, so he would have had the VO1 option HD cooling. This would have made the Y72 option with HD generator unavailable.
Also, clearly the VO1 is not a W30 option only - the 3.91 gears (G88) was availbale for a selection of cars.
I would love to see a build sheet for such a car.
The EC rad was used for AC applications in a variety of cars too.

stevengerard

interesting my car's shipping order has no reference to what cooling system the car has, so clearly it was part of a package, be it the AC or the W30 option. The car has 3.23 gears I assume, need to check the code on the axle tube - the only options on the broadcast card are W30, U58 (stereo), and C60 (AC).

Need to find the other broadcast card.

507OLDS

A 3:42 and numerically lower geared car could have standard cooling or HD cooling,so if your car has a 3-row radiator,and stuff like that,don't panic.You could have the 3-row with or without the shroud & clutch fan.All of the 4-row stuff had the shroud & clutch fan,as far as I know.I did see a nicely restored W31 that had a 4-row radiator,with the shroudless top,no shroud,but had the wider tangs for the 4-row radiator.I'm not sure if that was factory,or if someone made that.I say it was made.

Mr Shifty Sidney

stevengerard

Just as pcard and you said, the "EC" coded radiator is correct for 1970 442's with A/C per the assembly manual. I did note that two different part numbers were given for the "EC" radiator in the assemly manual, but double checking in my 70 inspectors guide shows the different part number is probably a typo error. All "EC" applications from the 70 inspectors guide shows the same part number. Soooo, I am with you dazed and confused.

V01 Radiator - Heavy Duty
*Manditory & Available only with 3:91 Axle
*Not Available with C60 or Y72 Options

Yet the assembly manual list the same radiators for your 442 with A/C as the VO1 radiator.

I still think "EC" is correct for your car, I just do not understand the VO1 and 2 options. All this and I have not told you anything you do not already know.


Brain

Just to be clear, when you say "You could have the 3-row with or without the shroud & clutch fan". Are you including (70-72) W cars in that? I am under the assumption that all 70-72 W cars had the clutch fan. I think Sam's 72 W-30 is a 3 core, no shroud car with clutch fan. Maybe Sam will confirm. I believe my 71 has the same setup; as you helped clarify the non shroud application.

All this makes me rethink the V01 and V02 options. I thought they were part of a package, but the more I look, it may be just the radiator itself. In the 70 inspectors manual they (V01 & V02) are simply described as Heavy Duty radiators.

Don W

72xw30

Brian and Don,

My 72 W30 does have a 3 core rad, clutch fan, and NO shroud.

Cheers,

Sam

Mr Shifty Sidney

Thanks for the information Sam.

Don W

kevin442

Oh well i cant get it to upload with my ipad.

Here is my build sheet for my 70' 442 4spd OAI and 3.42 rear with the VO2 option HD Radiator.

Box34 pwr steering pulley kg, 35 crank pulley kj, 36 v belt groove1 MQ, 37 v belt groove2 MM,
38 v belt groove3 none, 39 v belt groove4 991ap, 40 air pump and plugs ----,
41 air pulley D-2--

jensenracing77

Did both of these alternators have the diamond shaped fins on the back? My W-30 had many of the original parts in the trunk but the open face alternator does not have any numbers on it and does not have that diamond shape on the back. I have 3 open face alternators total and don't think any of the are correct.

507OLDS

From what I understand,if the alternators were ever serviced,the rear sections often got replaced.
They should have the diamond-shaped finned section.

Rocketguy

Huge thank you to all of you who have posted this wealth of information.

Can you gentlemen tell me if this alternator is correct for a '71 W-30 with a 3.73 gear?

MVC-477F.jpg


I see that most of the information here is for the '70 model year. Would it be correct to assume that this car should also have:

An OR code fan clutch?
A V01 radiator?

507OLDS

No,that is correct for a 70. That is dated April 20th,1970,and likely came on a May-built car.
The 71 W30,non-AC,with 3:73's,came with the 1100934 37A alternator.
Other 71 442/W30 alternators are 1100935 55A,and the 1100949 63A(rear defrost).