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I'm not an expert on 69's but did 69 engines have "C" heads.
Yes. C heads were used in model years 1967-69.
As for this particular car, wow, it's beautiful. I can't guarantee that it's all original without an in-person inspection, but boy, it sure presents well in photos. The asking price is eye-watering, however.
C heads were used 67-69. Everything looks pretty darn good my only question would be about the overspray on the catch in the door jam, underneath the car, and one of the gauges has a spot that could be a reflection not sure. Can’t read the cowl tag. Overall I would say there is a good possibility that this car is all original. Let’s see what the experts have to say
This has to be the same 69 442 I saw in Aug 2001 at the Das Awkscht Fescht show in Macungie, PA. See scanned pics attached. Macungie is in the same general area as New Hope show mentioned in the ad. Even still has the same yellow Notice card in the windshield. It was a 4 speed that was touted then as less than 20k miles, so that seems to match as well. My recollection back then it was a very nice time capsule.
I thought non A/C kick panels were single ****. Isn't the air cleaner supposed to have the chrome pie plate? Other than that I don't see anything obvious but I'm a lot more familiar with 68's
I thought non A/C kick panels were single ****. Isn't the air cleaner supposed to have the chrome pie plate? Other than that I don't see anything obvious but I'm a lot more familiar with 68's
Since vent windows were dropped on Holiday Coupes and convertibles for 1969, the second set of ***** controls upper level vents in the dash.
...and the pie plate that was on the '68 model was changed out for the decal you see on the '69. The only thing I see that seems slightly different is the little horizontal "tail" on the rear pinstripe that shows on to the outside of each tail light. I thought the pinstripe just ended with its downward stroke. This car is a natural beauty with some meaningful options (3.91, M21). The price tag does seem a bit high but it is a beauty!
This has to be the same 69 442 I saw in Aug 2001 at the Das Awkscht Fescht show in Macungie, PA. See scanned pics attached. Macungie is in the same general area as New Hope show mentioned in the ad. Even still has the same yellow Notice card in the windshield. It was a 4 speed that was touted then as less than 20k miles, so that seems to match as well. My recollection back then it was a very nice time capsule.
Tom,
I agree. This is the New Hope car and this car is beautiful.
The car has passed a visual from JOE P! Lols
I'm not a quibbler by any means, but don't the 442 emblem numbers look crooked on the trunk shot?
They are. That trunklid has either been replaced or repaired. It's NOT original. Those emblems are definitely crooked. The front fender numerals look great in comparison.
Also, as mentioned, the little tail on the quarter panel stripe outboard of the taillight was never found on any original 69 442 I've ever seen. Ever. And a drunk monkey may have put the stripe on around the top of the taillight. I know they weren't perfect, but that just looks very shabby.
And if you take a careful look, looks to me like pinstripe TAPE overlap under the trunk "2". Paint doesn't overlap that way.
EDIT: On closer inspection, it's a reflection off the picture taker's pants in the paint making it appear it's tape overlap. Never mind. It's paint. By the drunk monkey.
Normally things like this don't bother me all that much. It's a very nice car. But at this asking price and you tout it as an untouched original? No f**kin' way.
Most old people can't do technology very well, and that includes digital cameras. I have no doubt the car is authentic, but he won't sell it for that much. That's w-30 or Hurst Olds territory.
The only two things I could find was no rockets on the door panel and the trunk pinstripe ?
I have seen original 442 emblems from the factory not perfectly spaced or straight. I have also seen cutlass S door panel emblems installed on a 442. The car that had the s emblems has full documentation from the original owner and wares original paint.
The price is high but when I see what others have paid for restored cars and poorly restored cars then I think to the right collector maybe the price is not to high.
Great car and reference point.
Thanks to all the experts and non experts for the responses.
Bernhard
The only two things I could find was no rockets on the door panel and the trunk pinstripe ?
I have seen original 442 emblems from the factory not perfectly spaced or straight. I have also seen cutlass S door panel emblems installed on a 442. The car that had the s emblems has full documentation from the original owner and wares original paint.
The price is high but when I see what others have paid for restored cars and poorly restored cars then I think to the right collector maybe the price is not to high.
Great car and reference point.
Thanks to all the experts and non experts for the responses.
Bernhard
The only way the factory could have messed that up is if they had to do an in-house repair before the car left the plant. I've seen some of that occur, so it's not unheard of. Years ago seen GMC tailgates end up on Chevrolet trucks and the like during assembly. Mistakes happen. The panels were pierced so angling them wasn't an option. So if they're misaligned, it wasn't from the piercing. If a trunklid got damaged, or something, they could have repaired it or replaced it. Only the person drilling the holes knows for sure as to when and why. If anyone has a picture of misaligned 69-73 442 emblems in a dealer showroom, I'm ready for that.
I still stand by it's not 100% original as it left the factory. Nothing abysmal, but I'm not buying the complete ultra-survivor story. Mostly a survivor, ok, I'm ok with that. I'd probably go 50 on that car, but that would be tops. There's always that one mark out there that would pay 79. But my name isn't Mark.
They are. That trunklid has either been replaced or repaired. It's NOT original. Those emblems are definitely crooked. The front fender numerals look great in comparison.
Also, as mentioned, the little tail on the quarter panel stripe outboard of the taillight was never found on any original 69 442 I've ever seen. Ever. And a drunk monkey may have put the stripe on around the top of the taillight. I know they weren't perfect, but that just looks very shabby.
And if you take a careful look, looks to me like pinstripe TAPE overlap under the trunk "2". Paint doesn't overlap that way.
EDIT: On closer inspection, it's a reflection off the picture taker's pants in the paint making it appear it's tape overlap. Never mind. It's paint. By the drunk monkey.
Normally things like this don't bother me all that much. It's a very nice car. But at this asking price and you tout it as an untouched original? No f**kin' way.
The little "tail" outside the tail lamp at the end of the of the trunk stripe is very much factory. I have an original paint car in my possession that has the same paint treatment. ( The little tail on the quarter panel)
The car my brother owned was also an original paint car and his didn't. I guess it depends on were it was built.
The little "tail" outside the tail lamp at the end of the of the trunk stripe is very much factory. I have an original paint car in my possession that has the same paint treatment. ( The little tail on the quarter panel)
The car my brother owned was also an original paint car and his didn't. I guess it depends on were it was built.
Bernhard wrote:
Good point my car was built in Canada and has original paint. It does not have the quarter stripe, that 's why I questioned the stripe.
I have also seen cutlass s fender emblems that were slightly off on original paint cars.
Last edited by Bernhard; Nov 21, 2019 at 09:38 PM.
The little "tail" outside the tail lamp at the end of the of the trunk stripe is very much factory. I have an original paint car in my possession that has the same paint treatment. ( The little tail on the quarter panel)
The car my brother owned was also an original paint car and his didn't. I guess it depends on were it was built.
You could be on to something. I've never ever seen that tail. Or if I did, I don't remember. Maybe it also has to do with whoever was doing the pinstripes that particular day at that particular plant. Imagine a guy who has to fill in for someone at the hospital and he had a little different flair for how the quarter end of that stripe would go. Two weeks later, he's back working his old job. So it could be a couple hundred cars came with a quarter tail, all from the Linden plant. Or there was something that told them to do it that way. Simply speculating/musing on the possibilities here.
I've owned 3 original paint 69 442s in my lifetime and every one of them had no tail on the quarter stripe. The VINs were scattered fairly wide, so I believe that was the norm for the stripe. They were all Lansing cars, though, so it could be a plant thing.
I've been to a lot of shows with survivor 69-73s and while I never remember where a particular car was made, I always notice the details of emblem placement on the 442s with the separate numbers that mount into the sheet metal. 99% of the time, restoration ends up placing the numerals slightly off. I could go with the possibility of an in-factory repair to this car's trunk lid as to the crooked numbers. The lack of rockets on the door panels is still a bit of a question mark for me. I'd like to see the back sides of them.
Now with the R.E.M. templates and all, it has to be better to align the numbers. I wish I had those when I did my 71 nearly 30 years ago. I had NOS fenders (only new ones available then) and hand drilled them using a template I made from the original fenders because I didn't trust the body shop to put them on right. Did the best I could and it came out super close, but you can still see it's a hair off up close. 69 trunk emblem are originally spaced a bit further apart than the others, though. But always straight across.
Still going with 50K max on that car for me. If someone else wants to pay more, have at it. I'd still put that car in my garage....AND I'D TOUCH IT!
I didn't mention in my last post that my car is a Lansing Michigan car and my brothers was a Linden N.J. car.
Why these cars are finished differently is any ones guess
...and my '69 is a Fremont car and it didn't have the tail on the rear pinstripe. I've never seen a tail like that on the rear pinstripe but I've pretty much always have been on the west coast and saw nothing but either Fremont or Lansing cars. I was thinking the same thing in that it could have just depended on where the car was built.
What a gorgeous car!! I must say I've never seen those "tails" on the rear stripes either,& I've been around a few original '69s since I started playing with cars in the early the '70s Most were Lansing cars & a couple from Canada. Not trying to pick such a beautiful apart but aside from the missing rockets on the door trims, I noticed that the rear armrests are missing the chrome backing plates, they were standard on 442s & they're on the front armrests. It's neat to see variations in production from the different assembly plants. Hope he gets his $$$$ for it!!!
