1963 olds locking gas cap
June 5th, 2015, 07:58 AM
#1
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1963 olds locking gas cap
This is embarrassing. I bought a 1963 Oldsmobile Dynamic 88 with a locking gas cap. I put the key in and it turns both left and right but I can't get the cap off. What am I doing wrong?
June 5th, 2015, 09:43 PM
#4
A couple of months ago I removed an aftermarket locking gas cap from my 62 Super 88. The cap hadn't been off in at least 20 years and it didn't want to come of this year either. What happened is that the locking gas cap's internals were dragging, and wouldn't completely release the two external cams when the key was turned. Liberal application of penetrating oil solved the problem.
June 5th, 2015, 10:02 PM
#5
Now that I've thought about it a bit, I seem to remember using a red straw to shoot the penetrating oil down into the keyhole, and jiggling the key around a bit, and then repeating over and over to loosen up the locking mechanism. It took a lot of spraying and jiggling to get the cams to release properly. Once I got the locking cap out, I shot more oil into the cams on each side, and continued to jiggle the mechanism until it was free.
I think that the problem was caused by aluminum oxidation inside of the locking mechanism, which caused the internal components to drag.
I think that the problem was caused by aluminum oxidation inside of the locking mechanism, which caused the internal components to drag.
June 7th, 2015, 11:50 AM
#7
I had to get my gas cap off of the filler neck so that I could drop the tank for service. There's just NO WAY that I could have defeated the locking cap with a screwdriver unless I was willing to destructively remove the cap and damage the bung and filler neck in the process. The cap is designed like a mushroom specifically to prevent that type of attack.
If you can't get those things off the way they're supposed to come off, there's 's really no way to get them off that doesn't involve some element of destruction... like cutting the filler neck from below to remove the cap and bung, or just chiseling on the cap from above.
I didn't like either of those options, so I used penetrating oil in the lock. Graphite is typically what people recommend for lock lubrication, but in my case I was thinking that graphite would only be good to help prevent the problem that I already had. I just wanted that gas cap to come off, and the penetrating oil made come off the way it was intended to come off, without any banging or chiseling. I didn't know if the penetrating oil might damage the lock, but I didn't really care. The locking cap was in the way and I just wanted it to work long enough to get it off.
If you can't get those things off the way they're supposed to come off, there's 's really no way to get them off that doesn't involve some element of destruction... like cutting the filler neck from below to remove the cap and bung, or just chiseling on the cap from above.
I didn't like either of those options, so I used penetrating oil in the lock. Graphite is typically what people recommend for lock lubrication, but in my case I was thinking that graphite would only be good to help prevent the problem that I already had. I just wanted that gas cap to come off, and the penetrating oil made come off the way it was intended to come off, without any banging or chiseling. I didn't know if the penetrating oil might damage the lock, but I didn't really care. The locking cap was in the way and I just wanted it to work long enough to get it off.
June 8th, 2015, 09:14 AM
#9
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Location: SE Wisconsin
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I guess I was thinking more in terms of danger from sparking, rather than worrying about saving the gas cap.
I must be getting older and wiser (?), as in my 20's I recall, prior to junking a car, jacking it up and punching a hole in the gas tank to drain it!
I must be getting older and wiser (?), as in my 20's I recall, prior to junking a car, jacking it up and punching a hole in the gas tank to drain it!
June 8th, 2015, 03:03 PM
#10
When I was a dumb kid I watched a friend throw a book of lighted matches, one at a time, into a filler spout. Lucky me, nothing ever happened.
I'm wondering if anyone here has actually seen a car on fire that burned to completion and/or a gas tank explosion. I've seen the better part of a dozen or so cars burn and the fuel tank fires that followed. The way things played out was very different than what I had come to expect from watching TV. Here's a summary of what I've seen -- granted, I've only seen a limited number of cars burn so I'm no expert, but the results were always similar.
Cars don't immediately explode like they do on TV. The "typical" result on TV or in the movies is that as someone drives a car off of a cliff, the car goes through the guardrail and immediately explodes in mid air. If the movies were accurate then every car is going to burst into flames the moment that all 4 tires leave the pavement and the suspension gets unloaded. But movies are movies and the real world is different.
Suppose that a car catches on fire at the engine end and burns through the passenger compartment. Soemtimes you'll see a car that burned this way on the side of the road. The engine compartment and passenger compartments burn, and the car is a charred wreck. But the fuel tank doesn't normally catch fire. Usually the fire department gets there before that happens. Fuel tanks take quite some time to burn. They don't explode right away. It takes a long time to happen. What usually does-in the fuel tank is the rear tires catching fire, causing the fuel in the tank to boil. Without a flame in the tank there's no ignition, just a continually enriching fuel-air mixture and constantly increasing pressure.
Eventually enough pressure builds up that the gas cap gets blown off of the bung, and fuel vapor starts boiling out of the filler neck like a whistling tea kettle. You can see a prominent gas vapor stream spewing out of the filler neck, which purges all of the oxygen from the tank. Only fuel vapor is left behind. The tank doesn't explode because all of the oxygen was purged when the cap was blown off. As the residual fuel boils you end up with a 100% fuel vapor stream shooting out of the filler neck. That vapor stream doesn't even catch fire until the flames from the tires reach far enough up to directly ignite it. Then you've got a nice flamethrower at the fuel neck, that continues to burn for a surprisingly long time. There isn't any explosion because with all the boiling, there isn't any oxygen in left in the tank, just gasoline vapor. Later on, the fuel tank seams may eventually fail from all of the heat and pressure stress, and when that happens you'll get a flash when the residual spilled fuel escapes to reach environmental air. The whole process, from filler cap being blown off to tank rupture takes about 20 minutes. There is plenty of fire when the car burns, mostly from the interior burning. The fuel tank acts like a flamethrower at the filler neck, but it normally doesn't explode. The gas fires are always better in the movies than they are in real life.
I've seen this happen a number of times. I can't say that this is the only way that a car will burn, but it's how I've seen the situation play out several times. I don't think fuel tank explosion is as likely as most people would believe it to be. For most of us, the only time we've ever seen things like this happen is in the movies, where some FX guy exaggerates the situation by wiring the car with a stick of dynamite. That creates high visual impact as the car flies off of a cliff and explodes, but it's not real.
I'm wondering if anyone here has actually seen a car on fire that burned to completion and/or a gas tank explosion. I've seen the better part of a dozen or so cars burn and the fuel tank fires that followed. The way things played out was very different than what I had come to expect from watching TV. Here's a summary of what I've seen -- granted, I've only seen a limited number of cars burn so I'm no expert, but the results were always similar.
Cars don't immediately explode like they do on TV. The "typical" result on TV or in the movies is that as someone drives a car off of a cliff, the car goes through the guardrail and immediately explodes in mid air. If the movies were accurate then every car is going to burst into flames the moment that all 4 tires leave the pavement and the suspension gets unloaded. But movies are movies and the real world is different.
Suppose that a car catches on fire at the engine end and burns through the passenger compartment. Soemtimes you'll see a car that burned this way on the side of the road. The engine compartment and passenger compartments burn, and the car is a charred wreck. But the fuel tank doesn't normally catch fire. Usually the fire department gets there before that happens. Fuel tanks take quite some time to burn. They don't explode right away. It takes a long time to happen. What usually does-in the fuel tank is the rear tires catching fire, causing the fuel in the tank to boil. Without a flame in the tank there's no ignition, just a continually enriching fuel-air mixture and constantly increasing pressure.
Eventually enough pressure builds up that the gas cap gets blown off of the bung, and fuel vapor starts boiling out of the filler neck like a whistling tea kettle. You can see a prominent gas vapor stream spewing out of the filler neck, which purges all of the oxygen from the tank. Only fuel vapor is left behind. The tank doesn't explode because all of the oxygen was purged when the cap was blown off. As the residual fuel boils you end up with a 100% fuel vapor stream shooting out of the filler neck. That vapor stream doesn't even catch fire until the flames from the tires reach far enough up to directly ignite it. Then you've got a nice flamethrower at the fuel neck, that continues to burn for a surprisingly long time. There isn't any explosion because with all the boiling, there isn't any oxygen in left in the tank, just gasoline vapor. Later on, the fuel tank seams may eventually fail from all of the heat and pressure stress, and when that happens you'll get a flash when the residual spilled fuel escapes to reach environmental air. The whole process, from filler cap being blown off to tank rupture takes about 20 minutes. There is plenty of fire when the car burns, mostly from the interior burning. The fuel tank acts like a flamethrower at the filler neck, but it normally doesn't explode. The gas fires are always better in the movies than they are in real life.
I've seen this happen a number of times. I can't say that this is the only way that a car will burn, but it's how I've seen the situation play out several times. I don't think fuel tank explosion is as likely as most people would believe it to be. For most of us, the only time we've ever seen things like this happen is in the movies, where some FX guy exaggerates the situation by wiring the car with a stick of dynamite. That creates high visual impact as the car flies off of a cliff and explodes, but it's not real.
June 8th, 2015, 05:01 PM
#11
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Location: Poteau, Ok
Posts: 40,806
When I was a kid my grandfather had a gas station, 1960-70s'. I used to pump gas and as most people smoked at the same time. I've thrown lit cigarettes into pans of gas I used for cleaning bearings and parts, it go out just like it hit a pan of water. The only time I've seen the end result of a tank explosion was during a welding repair when the tank was sealed with apparently a small amount of fuel in it.
As a Volunteer Fireman for many years, I've witnessed a great many car fires where the car was fully engulfed in flames for one reason or another and never had an explosion.
My wife and I were involved in serious accident with my 68 Mustang GT Fastback (really miss that car), was rear ended by a pickup and got pushed into the back of Delta 88. Tore the fuel tank open like a split beer can. Gas all over the place, no fire, no explosion.
As a Volunteer Fireman for many years, I've witnessed a great many car fires where the car was fully engulfed in flames for one reason or another and never had an explosion.
My wife and I were involved in serious accident with my 68 Mustang GT Fastback (really miss that car), was rear ended by a pickup and got pushed into the back of Delta 88. Tore the fuel tank open like a split beer can. Gas all over the place, no fire, no explosion.
June 8th, 2015, 07:05 PM
#12
I wouldn't fret too much over chiseling out, or drilling out, a gas cap. But I'm not crazy enough to try something like this:
Gas Station flamethrower scene from the movie Point Break:
http://www.whatever-dude.com/wdimage...ts/pbflame.jpg
Gas Station flamethrower scene from the movie Point Break:
http://www.whatever-dude.com/wdimage...ts/pbflame.jpg
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