Can someone please tell me the factory O2 sensor location(s) on my 85 olds. My buddy seems to think there HAS to be an O2 sensor before and after the cat, I have removed my cat by cutting directly in front of it. The only thing attached to my cat was an air tube from the air pump. I see an 02 sensor on my passenger side BEFORE the cat, but haven't really had time to look elsewhere for one and it's now dark. I just want to pass on correct information to him and be able to explain why.....................


My thinking is that since it has a carb and some computer control that it only needs to know the mixture coming out of the heads to correct it. He says it doesn't work like that and there must be one before and after the cat for it to work properly. Set me straight guys!

EDIT: NO I didn't go cutting my cat out to prove a point, I've had new exhaust with cat delete for a while now.

 

Sure there is. It's right after the flux capacitor.

Because the only way you could get a car with two O2 sensors in 1985 was to go Back to the Future.

- Eric

 

HAHAHHAHAHHA That's what I told him!!!!!!!!!!

He still won't believe me that my carb is computer controlled either......SMH.

This kid is about 21 and been around imports all his life but seems to be knowing of all things cars except for when I bring up things about my 85 Olds he just says "it's old" ....he kills me...

 

The reason for the second sensor after the cat is for the computer to make sure the cat is functioning properly. If it wasn't a code would be stored in the computer and the engine light comes on. This was not on many older cars such as yours.

 

The CCC system on that model uses only one O2 sensor. It does not monitor before and after the Cat.
The carb does have a mixture control solenoid in it, so it IS controlled.

 

as always VERY HELPFUL! Thanks guys/gals!


I'm no car expert but this kid is a mechanical engineer student and he shoots down anything and everything I say almost about how a few things work under the hood etc between different styles of motors - i think his textbooks are eating into his brain.

 

I'm Still kinda laughing about this.

 

Mention the flux cap to your friend and let him wonder. "Back to the Future" came out in the mid 80's - way before his time.
Heck, now I feel old!!

 

I'll think I'll take advantage of his love for making wagers on this one......He argued with me about it for at least an hour - lol (while I was working of course) I'll throw 100 bucks on it that he doesn't find a second O2 sensor and he'll be able to see that the car is not modified other than the exhaust (there's a flange with two bolts that comes down to the where the cat is supposed to be and this is where i made the cut (turndown? collecter? ) and i've jetted the carb (he won't see this though) and added a dual snorkel CAI. I can't wait to see his face when he has to hand over the money =.= I'll try to snap a picture of the moment and post it =P

 

this is the difference between OBD I and OBD II
1995 was the changeover year from I to II, iirc.

tell the kid that he'll be old too, before he knows it. lol


bill

 

Yea I know OBDII started in 95, he said he won't work on anything earlier than 95. Just throws me that he's a smart kid and does show a decent amount of knowledge towards cars but can't be told what is fact when it comes to the classics and early model cars, I would think you would learn about the first cars made and the progression so that you can grasp numerous viewpoints in diagnosing a problem.

Example:

2002 outback wagon 2.5l MT 5speed

clicking noise when driveshaft is in rotation. Sound is coming from Yoke area and u-joint (non serviceable this model) Put car on jack stands all wheels in air due to AWD (full time) Put in 1st and had someone tap gas to increase rpms.........i say it's the bearing inside the yoke housing (im not good with technical terms i just know how stuff goes together) This car had hit something directly on the oil pan (smashed) and two flat spots on front tires..........he says driveshaft u-joint is bad.....i say no, the bearing is bad....he ignores me and orders a $500 driveshaft - i put it in and same situation - he just looks at me like okay take it out. I said now you believe me it's the bearing or possibly the differential? he walked away got on the computer and didnt say too much ..... BTW car shifts smooth drives fine just has the clicking noise in bearing so tomorrow when it comes i'll know if i was on the right track......i work with this kid everyday and just looking for ways to teach him b/c he thinks he knows everything and is making mistakes that are costly....

 

Lemme know if you need a scan from the factory service manual as proof of only one O2 sensor when he has to cough up the dough!!

 

 

No where near as bad as my high school shop teacher.

One of my 1st cars was a 70 D88.

I suspected the a/c compressor going bad.

Freon wasn't low & it would generally freeze you out.

New belt that was snug.

Every now & then it had some bad belt squeal. You could actually see the clutch trying to stop every now & then if you watched it closely.
(the compressor eventually locked up & snapped the belt)

Before it had died ... I brought it up to my shop teacher.

Told him what it was doing.

I was basically trying to determine if it was indeed gonna die a violent death & need total replacement ... or if the clutch itself could have been replaced.

His response :

It's the computer.

Me (repeating myself to him) :

Like I said ... it's a 70 D88.

His response to my response :
(hand up interrupting me before I could even finish)

Yea yea yea I heard ya 1970 blah blah blah ... like I said it's the computer. You're probably low on freon ... so the computer is trying to kick them compressor off.
(said with attitude of course')

Scary ...

Really REALLY scary.

 

I swear some people know everything, even if it's wrong. And id love a scan of the page showing 1 o2 sensor so he can wipe the snot from his nose when he is done reading. Lol

 

Guess I could'nt have picked a better subject to double post on eh ?.
(pointing out the mistakes of another)

I deleted the 2nd identical post.

 

Double posts, it happens but yea kinda funny that you did it while talking about mistakes. No harm =P

 

oh and to add on about the subaru incident, at first diagnosis I was like sounds like something is slipping possibly - he said "NO SHUT UP WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT??@!!! When things slip they don't make noise they just slip." I had to bite my tongue on that one.

How can he not see that if something is slipping inside of a housing or a race is worn for a bearing etc..that maybe when it comes in contact with other metal parts there could be a noise made?

I don't want to sound mean but EDUCATED IDIOT comes to mind with this guy.

 

just what the world needs, another mr.-know-it-all (that doesn't)


bill

 

UPDATE: He no longer wishes to work with me - I'm not offended, TBH I was relieved to hear him say today after we went to the auction that he feels like this isn't the job for him. There is a God!!!!!!

I may close out this dealership deal because it's beginning to be a PITA. I have no problem buying/selling cars - I've sold every car that I've bought so far at fair prices and still coming out on top after expenses and such, just feeling like I could be more successful just doing repairs and the like. Maybe I'm just frustrated by dealing with this kid for the last 6 months...... sigh.

 

So you own a dealership and a limousine service at 25? I admire your entrepreneurial spirit. You are going to be successful no matter what you're doing if you keep it up. But take it easy on the kid, one of the best ways to teach someone is to let them mess up a few things and realize they don't know it all.

 

Thanks for your compliments! Much appreciated. I'm very energetic and a go-getter with a can do attitude towards anything. I wasn't/haven't been rude to the kid - just firm and to the point. I respect his decision in every way. I'm honestly just not sure what I want to do......

And I haven't fully dove into the limo service as of yet - still collecting info on that. But I do manage a restaurant and run a dealership during the day. I have 6 plates and about 15 cars at the moment. Running your own business is hard I must say. Work hard Play hard.

-Brandon

 

It was 1996, I believe.

In my expericene, I found that those import kids just can't be talked to when it comes down to cars. I've taken my Alero to the track many times on Sport Compact day and I've been told by these kids that an Oldsmobile isn't an import and shouldn't be here today.

They are right that it's not an import, but the defention of Sport Compact is "FWD car with an engine of 3.5 liters or smaller"

Also, he won't pay the $100. He'll still insist he is right and the car is modded in some way and OBD I started in either 1980 or 1981, CPU controlled carbs was 83, I think, on GM cars anyway

 

But the CSM will prove he must let his hundred clams loose!

 

But guys like that will still welch, no matter what.
He'll act like he didn't see or hear any of your proof, and just walk away.

- Eric

 

Your crystal ball is working quite nicely sir!~


That #&*%head had the nerve to say that someone modded the car!
Get this, He HASN'T bothered to look at the car one time in the midst of all this, I opened the hood for him and pulled the air cleaner off so he could see the mess of wires plugged into the carb. He acted like he was busy and stayed just out of sight the vehicle....What's with people?

 

There is a word for people like that.

It starts with "***" (like a donkey ) and ends with "hole."

It's best to avoid them as much as possible.

- Eric

 

I'm moving to an island lol.....my own island.

 

Here is all the proof you need that it is stock.
Only ONE sensor. It's location is noted as well.
Let him weep...

 

well now you are just clouding his opinion with facts!

 

Ah, Rob... You bright-faced, optimistic young man...

Don't you know that there is no force in the world that can overcome The POWER of STOOPID?

- Eric

 

Thanks ROB!!!! You guys are great keep it up! He proceeded to stop by today and I don't even want to mention any details. Let's just say I had a good laugh today for sure.
I even showed him the paperwork you have posted and he goes and I quote "anyone can use photoshop" I just rolled my eyes and walked away shaking my head trying to rid myself of the stooper he just put me in.

 

Yeah, but who'll be laughing ten years from now, when he's your Congressman?

- Eric

 

Eric, don't jinx us!!! I thought the world was ending this year?

 

I think now is when you click the ignore button and write this guy off as a troll. It doesn't matter what you say, he's going to keep seeing what he wants to see and twist your words into his own reality so that he can feel superior. It's just some peoples way of feeling better about themselves. You won't change him, and anymore time you spend trying to is wasted. Cut your losses and realize you won't be able to communicate with everyone in this world. Some people just can't see eye to eye. I've had to learn that lesson myself recently.

 

Yea I've gave up with him - if he wants to come by and chat about normal things in life then fine, but as soon as he goes off in Textbook world and misses the forest for the trees it's all going in one ear and out the other, THEPACKRAT can you send me one of those trusty ANTI-YDS Helmets? (yds = young dumb & stupid)

 

i'm willing to bet that all of his views are severely skewed, i wouldn't give him the time of day. i've run across his type-they get tiring quickly. just my $.02


bill

 

packrat's helmets must be on back order... avoiding him at all costs sounds nice.

 

On a different note, if (crazy as this may sound) I wanted to add cats and an O2 sensor/computer coupled with an EFI to my otherwise stock 72 cutlass, would I use 1 or 2 O2 sensors? Hypothetically speaking (sorry to jump the thread.) I guess it would depend on a lot of things, like does the EFI need 2 inputs? I was just thinking about how I would like to build my SBO if I had tons of money and time, and have been looking at the new generation of carburetor bore EZ EFI systems available.

 

As described above, the only function of the second O2 sensor downstream of the cat is to monitor functioning of the cat itself. The OBDII system monitors performance of many of the emissions control items on the car and sets a code if performance degrades. In the case of the cat, the computer compares the upstream and downstream O2 sensors to verify the cat is working properly. The second 02 sensor in no way is used by the EFI system itself. In fact, if the cat is working properly, there is no useful information from the second O2 sensor anyway. There is no reason to install one on an EFI conversion.