wishful

Hi, I've searched through a few posts to see if anyone has had a similar problem to no avail.


My parking lamps do not work. I had a new headlight switch installed, and they (headlights) work fine, as well as the tail lights, brake lights, turn signals and flashers. I ran a wire directly from the battery to the parking light pigtail and it works, however I was unable to detect any voltage with a voltmeter from the wiring harness connector ( park lights). The tail lights also works when the headlight switch is in the park light position as they should.


However there is one caveat to this story. I had an alarm system installed on the car which was stolen. I looked under the dash and I see no wires which look butchered other than two wires which ran to the alarm indicator light, and an additional wire from the courtesy lamp (lamp works)which is also cut.


I know the alarm utilized the park lamps to arm and disarm the system, and of course flash if activated. I'm unsure if it may be related to the problem I'm having, but it makes me wonder. Forgive the lengthy question, I just wanted to be as detailed as possible for anyone who may have an answer. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


Thanks

Koda

First thing is check to make sure the parking lights do not work in parking lights only position on the switch. Pre 68 cars do not run their parking lights when the headlights are on, so if they don't work when the headlights are on, that's why.

If they also do not work in the parking lights only position, then you do have a problem.

wishful

Thanks Koda, they do not work in the parking lights position only, hence I suppose I do have a problem. But as mentioned one worked when I ran a wire directly to it from the battery.

oldcutlass

Ill assume that it has something to do with your alarm.

joe_padavano

The front park light circuit on your car is about the simplest electric circuit there is on the car. The headlight switch is fed +12V. When in the park light position, the switch sends +12V out on the front park light terminal. A single wire runs from the switch to the firewall connector, then from the connector to the LH part light housing. Another wire runs from the LH housing to the RH housing.

Once again, BEFORE spending any money on replacing parts that may or may not be needed, try a little free troubleshooting. Test #1 is to see if there is power on the output terminal on the headlight switch when in the park light position. If not, figure out why. If there is, try applying 12V to the front park light terminal in the connector that goes to the firewall connector. If the lights work, everything from there forward is good. If not, repeat at the firewall connector, etc, etc. You can also do this backwards, as you have already checked the light pigtail, so keep going in the other direction.

The other thing I'd check immediately is, was the correct headlight switch used? We've seen this before. Many of the vendor catalogs list the wrong switch for the 67 cars. They show the 68-up switch, which does not have the terminal for the front park lights.

wishful

Thanks to all for your input, I'll double check for any spliced or cut wires which may have been related to the alarm. I do have a question for Joe, which is would the output terminal on the headlight switch turn on the tail lights as well as the parking lights in the park light position? If so it would help me to eliminate the possibility that it is the wrong switch. I ask because my tail lights do come on in the park light position, and it would seem to me improbable that the 68 switch would turn these lights on without turning on the park lights also in this position. Therefore I can then proceed with the other tests that you suggest.


Thank you
Ron

joe_padavano

On the 67-down cars, the front park lights only come on with the switch in the first position, but the taillights come on in both positions (since they have to remain on with the headlights), so there are two terminals on the early switches, one for the front and one for the back. On the 68-up switches both the front and rear lights come on with the switch in both positions, so there is only one terminal and both front and rear light circuits are spliced together in the harness. If you have the wrong switch, the terminal in the connector for the front lights won't have a mating terminal on the switch.

joe_padavano

In this diagram, terminal 7 is the one that feeds the front lights and will not be present on the 68-up switch.

joe_padavano

Here are the switches. Left is 68-up, right is 67-down.

MDchanic

Just saw this thread.

The problem is that you have the wrong headlight switch.

There is a database error that lists the '68-up headlight switch for the '67 cars in most, if not all of the national parts chains. If this switch is installed, there is no terminal for the front parking lights, so they don't go on.

Go back and get a switch for a '65 and you should be fine.

- Eric

joe_padavano

Better late than never, Eric

The problem is that the switch was replaced because he had a problem with the original one (which admittedly may also have been an incorrect replacement).

MDchanic

Ah, yes.

Easy enough to test, though, as you already pointed out.

We've passed this way before... This thread contains photos and part numbers for the correct switch.

- Eric

wishful

Thanks again everyone, I removed the headlight switch and yes! it is the wrong switch. It has a single terminal for both the front and rear light circuits. I'll be looking for the correct one later today.


If it weren't for the suggestions here I would have been clueless.
Thank you, I will update everyone on my progress in the next day or two.

wishful

To everyone involved, Thank you again, well here's the update! I replaced the switch with a switch ordered for a 65 cutlass as Eric suggested, and the front turn signals now work which they didn't before. However, when I turn the parking lights on by themselves the two indicator lights on the instrument panel come on instead of the parking lights.


At this point I now believe it may or may not be due to the alarm which had been installed?


Here is the step by step events which took place after installation


I first pulled the switch to the park position, the right park light only came on along with the right indicator light on the dash.


I tried the turn signals and they all worked


I tried the flashers and they all work.


I removed the turn signal flasher and reinstalled it. (harness)


I turned the headlight switch off and back on and both the right and left indicator lights came on inside on the dash, yet the park lights did not.


In summation front and rear turn signals are working, flashers are working along with my tail lights and headlights. Lastly, when I turn the park lights on in and of themselves my indicator lights come on inside on the instrument panel but no park lights.

Unfortunately I no longer have the owners manual for the alarm. Yet I would think that the alarm itself would provide the features required to operate the flashers without ant special changes to the existing wiring other than hooking it up.


In either case I am excited to have found out I now have the right switch thanks to all of you.


In the meantime it's back to the drawing board, any further suggestions are more than welcome, although you have already helped me tremendously. Thanks!


I will update further as I go along

oldcutlass

Follow the wire in Joes diagram above and see where the alarm splices into it. Its one wire from the light switch to the parking lights.

MDchanic

Does this car have 4-way flashers?

If so, try moving / wiggling the flasher button.

You also need to check the positions of all of your 1157 signal light bulbs - it is possible for a bulb to be installed wrong, or be the wrong (1156) bulb, or be poorly grounded, which can cause the current for the parking lights to feed back through the signal light filaments and into the signal indicators on the dash.

- Eric

joe_padavano

The headlight switch has absolutely nothing to do with the turn signal circuit. The only place that the two circuits touch is at the common filament ground in the 1157 bulbs. Problems like this where the turn signal and park light circuits interact are just about ALWAYS caused by bad grounds at the lamp. Check the ground from the bulb to the socket and from the socket to the frame. Also, I assume these are new bulbs, right?

Check for corrosion in the socket or rusted springs behind the contacts that prevent the bulb from fitting tightly in the socket. Get one a socket cleaner brush and a spray can of electrical contact cleaner. I went through this drill when I resurrected my 62 after it had been sitting in the desert for 30 years.

joe_padavano

Sorry, no. The only place the park light and turn/brake light circuits touch is at the common filament ground in the bulb. If the four-way button were pushed in, the dashboard turn indicators would come on when you stepped on the brakes, NOT when you put the park lights on.

MDchanic

In an ideal world.

I'm not saying that I've seen this, because I haven't, but I could imagine a poor ground or poorly inserted bulb causing current to feed back in a way that varies depending on the 4-way switch position (or half-position) - the thing that got me was the statement that he had one signal indicator glowing and then he had two. It just doesn't sit right in my mind.

I suggested this mostly because it's easy enough to jiggle the switch, and after that he can proceed to check the bulbs and sockets.

- Eric

joe_padavano

More likely there was one side with a completely bad ground and one with a marginal, resistive ground. After cycling the headlight switch, the second one became non-conductive also. I've seen this too many times - where a resistive ground arcs just slightly then becomes non-conductive. This is also why you need a good, high-impedance ohmmeter (or better, a test light) and not just the ones Harbor Freight gives away for free with a coupon.

MDchanic

I agree with that. The classic location for the resistive arc to non-conductive scenario is in the battery terminal clamps, but I have had that happen with loose bulbs as well (VERY annoying).

- Eric

wishful

Yes New bulbs Joe I'll try your suggestion's later today
Thanks

cjsdad

Your alarm is most likely NOT the problem. If you cannot see any of the alarm wiring you had a good installer. If your turn signal indicators in the dash light up with the parking lights you most likely have the wrong bulbs. The correct bulbs would be part #1157. Dual element/dual contact bulbs. If 1156 bulbs are installed, single element/single contact, they will short the parking light circuit with the turn signal circuit. The parking lights will be super bright. The 1157 bulbs have offset locator pins that are supposed to stop them from fitting in backwards and the sockets are supposed to stop the wrong bulbs from being installed as well. If you try hard enough though, the wrong bulbs can be forced in. And it screws up a lot of things.

If stepping on the brake pedal lights up the turn signal indicators, the wrong bulbs are in the rear. If turning on the parking lights does it, it could be front or rear. Check yer bulbs.

wishful

Thanks, will double check all bulbs, although I'm certain I have the correct # 1157 amber bulbs installed and #1157 tail lights, it certainly cant hurt to check.


I would like to ask just for clarification is there only one headlight switch for the 1967 model year cutlass/442/cutlass supreme/F-85. I installed the switch for the 65 model year cutlass as suggested, however I own a 67 cutlass supreme. I understand that venders list the wrong switch, I only ask because I noted the two different part numbers Eric mentions in the related thread mentioned above. Just thought I'd ask before proceeding to the circuitry test Joe speaks about from the firewall connector, which I presume is behind the fuse panel?


Thanks again everyone,


I also spoke to an alarm installer and was told that the alarm would generally simply be spliced into the park light wiring yet it should not affect the existing circuit. The wire I saw coming from the courtesy lamp utilizes the door jamb switch as a trigger. I see one hot wire that is taped which may have been spliced into to provide power to the unit itself, but now looks intact, and two insignificant wires that went to the indicator lights.


Therefore I believe I can rule out the alarm that was once in the car.

joe_padavano

1156 are the Backup Light bulbs. Both the front and rear park/turn bulbs are 1157s.

The two part numbers Eric lists (HL6554 and HL6554SB) are the same switch, as evidenced by the fact that both have P/N HL6554. The only difference is the length of the warrantee. NAPA charges more for the longer warrantee and thus uses a different P/N. I went through the same thing when buying brake drums from them.

Correct.

wishful

I removed the 2 fuse panel bolts and became intimidated by the thought that I may have to disconnect the wiring harnesses. I've looked at the diagram for the fuse panel and I am assuming that the front of the panel separates from the rear of the panel. Can someone confirm this? I don't see how else I would be able to isolate the park light circuit without doing so.

MDchanic

Not a bad way to isolate the engine compt. harness from the rest of the car.

I thought I remembered a single screw with a 3/8" head holding the two plugs into the fuse block, but I could be wrong.

All you do is remove the screw (or was it screws?) from the engine side - it's right in the center - and then pull out the two plugs from the engine compartment side.
They are likely to have a bunch of undercoating or similar goo kind of gluing them in, and to have grease on the contacts to keep them from corroding.

- Eric