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I cant do much about it other than having repaired. BUT, What could cause this??
The starter is about 2 years old give or take, its even not begon to look like its been fitted to the car other than the schratches I made. It have been working without issues since I bought the car shortly after the starter was replaced (original rebuild starter). I have just finished the installation of a rebuild engine, and with a little stupid start attempts with the idea of breaking in the engine, I finally cranked the engine and it started, and 5 seconds after a screaming noise came and I quickly shut down the engine. I tried to crank the engine again and was right away sure that the starter was bad as it did not crank the engine, but just made the typical “starter not in starter ring” ( the starter did work electrical).
Can a high compression engine like this kill a starter rather quickly?
I can add that the starter and transmission have been fitted EXACTLY AS BEFORE. No shims and so on.
The 2 halfs of a washer and the metal fragment came out of the inspection hole at the bottom of the bellhousing.
It may not help, but I had a power master rebuild starter snap it's pot-metal nose on the first day. Right out of the blue. Amazingly, in my mechanic's driveway.
I took the rebuilt innards and put it in an old, good fitting nose and was back in business. Took about an hour or so to make 1 from 2.
Hopefully it is just a bad starter drive and not something else. From the look of the picture and your description, I suspect a bad drive only. Maybe order 2 drives just in case it should happen again. It is possible that the battery became a bit run down and a bit low on volts from the earlier cranking and this low battery condition may have caused the solenoid contact to arc and stick making the starter stay engaged. Be sure to have a fully charged battery or have a charger on it if cranking many times to break in engine.
It sounds like the starter stayed engaged after the engine started and self destructed. Check the clearance between the starter drive gear and the flex plate teeth. You should be able to slip a paperclip between the two.
It may not help, but I had a power master rebuild starter snap it's pot-metal nose on the first day. Right out of the blue. Amazingly, in my mechanic's driveway.
I took the rebuilt innards and put it in an old, good fitting nose and was back in business. Took about an hour or so to make 1 from 2.
Ok. Some sort of comfort, that I am not the only one that this has happend too :0)
I only have this one, and finding another is most likely only possible in the US, which will cost alot of dollar. I must consider repair or maybe mini starter of some sort.
Hopefully it is just a bad starter drive and not something else. From the look of the picture and your description, I suspect a bad drive only. Maybe order 2 drives just in case it should happen again. It is possible that the battery became a bit run down and a bit low on volts from the earlier cranking and this low battery condition may have caused the solenoid contact to arc and stick making the starter stay engaged. Be sure to have a fully charged battery or have a charger on it if cranking many times to break in engine.
It seems to be the drive part only. By the sound of it something get shoot out and it turns over ( not a nice sound), but does not engage.
The sticking solonoid is possible, as my battery have seen better days, allthough I did add the booster, but maybe it wasnt enough.
You mention ordering a drive.. where would that be from??
It sounds like the starter stayed engaged after the engine started and self destructed. Check the clearance between the starter drive gear and the flex plate teeth. You should be able to slip a paperclip between the two.
Thank you, that a good guide . I didnt use any shims, because there where no shims before. May bad, did think about it when fitting, but thought it worked before.
Found the bendix drive on Rockauto... I had NO idea it was such an available part.
Where can I find shims for my starter? My starter is fitted on a vertical flange on the bellhousing with 2 bolts.
I don't think the problem is a shim problem, and the shims shown on the Rock auto won't work with that starter. Be careful of the drive from rock auto. If you give me your starter number or year make and model I can tell what drive to get. Also let me know what drive number rockauto drive is before you buy. I have seen a few people get the wrong drive from rockauto.
My best guess is your starter is an 1107776. The delco drive number for that is 1974355. This drive is 76.2mm long and the more popular (but wrong for your application) drive is 80.8mm long. You need the shorter one. Ask rock auto for a measurement before you buy.
The shims would work if he had a 5.4, but I think he has a 6.5 I don't want to see him get the 5.4 drive when he needs the drive for the 6.5 engine. Jandk, if rockauto doesn't have the correct drive, I can get it for you, but I have no idea what shipping would be. Try rockauto first. They may be able to ship for less.
My best guess is your starter is an 1107776. The delco drive number for that is 1974355. This drive is 76.2mm long and the more popular (but wrong for your application) drive is 80.8mm long. You need the shorter one. Ask rock auto for a measurement before you buy.
Thank you for all the info and help. My starter housing has Delco 1108187 stamped into it. The car is a 1964 98.
I am lucky to have a classic us mechanics shop near by. He says he might have a parts available to fix my starter. If he can help dont waste your time. If he cant help I might want you to confirm the correct drive. Because I am oversea I would like to avoid wasting money on wrong parts.
Don't use the 1108187 number to find parts. That part of your starter is from a continental forklift engine. The drive number SDN2 from rockauto is the drive you need. Because you have a different case than original, I have no way of knowing what the fields or armature are with out pictures. Or you can do this. When the repair shop looks at your starter, have him count the number of bars on the commutator. If there are 23 bars use the 1107776 number to find parts. If there are 27 bars use 1107665 to find parts. 1107776 is a high torque starter and it is what you should have. Thr 1107665 is a low torque starter and may not be strong enough for your engine. If the 1108187 has the original fields the armature will have 27 bars on the commutator and it is low torque. if you need parts ask here on the forum before you buy so you get the right parts. Good luck
Oh man Stellar... seems like you know these parts in depth.. THANKS. I was by him this afternoon going home from work, and he had a drive he was sure would fit, a used part but it will work if it is the right one. He gave me the drive to do it my self, so I will see if I get time this weekend, and will pay attention to was you have written.
What would your advise be, if it is a low torque starter?? Leave it and get a OE high torque somewhere or aftermarket high torque starter??
RossRacingEngines offers Ministarter which I understand is high torque for ca 300$ to fit standard engine/transmission which I have.
Fix it and use it. If it cranks slow then look for a rebuilt high torque delco or an aftermarket custom made replacement. You can also make it into a high torque by changing the fields and armature of the one you have. Be sure to measure the drive and do not use it if it is wrong.
Last edited by stellar; January 26th, 2018 at 03:42 PM.
im not sure of your exact application but if originality isnt as important as functionality a lot of guys use a mini starter like the power master, its about 1/2 the size and weight of the original which make install/reinstalls much easier.
Fix it and use it. If it cranks slow then look for a rebuilt high torque delco or an aftermarket custom made replacement. You can also make it into a high torque by changing the fields and armature of the one you have. Be sure to measure the drive and do not use it if it is wrong.
I will compare the “new” drive with the broken one before.
Its properly to much hassle and time consuming for me to source part to make it a high torque starter (if it is a low torque ofcause) because parts might be VERY hard to source here.
If I should go mad and wanted to look for a complete high torque Delco I understand it should be the 1107776 starter.
im not sure of your exact application but if originality isnt as important as functionality a lot of guys use a mini starter like the power master, its about 1/2 the size and weight of the original which make install/reinstalls much easier.
Its a 394 cui in my NinetyEight. I am not too worried about originality regarding starter and have considered a ministarter as stated in my previous post, but would rather keep then original first.
Btw, I dont think it rather easy to find a ex Power Master mini starter to replace the original starter (My paying attention to the flange). I do get a hot on ebay, but that is a no name and it is cheap(er).
I might use the wrong search words
Last edited by Jandk; January 27th, 2018 at 02:05 AM.
If possible show pictures of the complete starter. If you take it apart, show pictures of the armature and fields in the case and the case. Then I can tell you if it is high torque or not. If you want a mini starter I can probably source one from the USA, but they are expensive. Because of the flange mount, I don't think you will find one at Summit or Rockauto. The 1107776 is the original number of the starter for that car and engine. If you find a rebuilt starter for that car it may have a case with different numbers on it and the correct parts may be in it. The 1107776 had 2 large fields and 2 smaller shunt fields, but any version of high torque fields would be a lot better that a low torque. Many Delco starters had some version of high torque fields, so finding them may be easier than you might expect. The armature in your starter is shorter than most Delco starters. If you find a Delco starter that has a high torque armature, you can modify it to work in your starter. You will need to cut a small piece off the end and then cut a new groove in the shaft to accept the retaining ring and either use the spacer from the low torque armature or make one to fit. This spacer is on the shaft between the armature body and the bottom of the drive. It is a split spacer and is 55/64th of an inch long. Use the low torque armature as a guide for the modifications. You may even be able to rebuild the drive using parts from a longer drive. If you have questions, please ask. good luck.
Last edited by stellar; January 27th, 2018 at 04:47 AM.
Reason: more
First, I see I mixed up the partnumber. Its a 1108781, sorry.
But, see pictures. If I get it right its is a high torque starter. The shop near by gave me the used drive, but it is worn and have a longer drive pinion. Does it look allright or should go for the SDN2 drive as you mentioned earlier??
Good news is you have a high torque starter. Bad news is the drive won't work. DO NOT USE IT . Order the SDN2. IF you feel like playing a bit and the lower part is the same, put the broken drive pinion (gear) in the longer drive. Pry open the underside of the cap. Tap (hammer) the pinion down to remove the cap. Remove the 2 half circle peices, sometimes there is also a complete circle piece, rotate the pinion while pulling it out. Remove the roller ***** and springs. Clean everything. Put grease in where the rollers set. Don't worry about using too much. It needs grease and the grease will help hold the rollers in place on the ramps. Put the pinion back in. You may need to rotate it to get it in. Put the springs in against the rollers and the spring stop. You may need to rotate the pinion to get the springs in especially the last one. Pack any open areas with grease on the springs. Put the circle pieces back on. Be sure not to overlap the 2 half circles. Push the cap back on and peen it over on the underside to secure the cap. You can put it in a vise with something with a hole in it to go over the pinion(like a big socket) and hold the cap tight when peening it over on the bottom. Some drives have 4 rollers and some have 5. If they are different do not mix them. If they are the same use the best rollers (no flat spots and the liveliest springs. If you can't get the cap open enough to push off you can cut or grind it, but be sure to leave as much of the cap skirt on as possible. If you cut or grind it you will need to grind a bevel on the lower part of the drive body where it was crimped to allow for the now shorter cap to be bent and peened over. There isn't much force against the cap internally so it only needs to be cromped (peened) over enough to keep the cap from popping off. Your now repaired drive should be good to go. Turn the pinion clockwise and it should turn with resistance and it should lock when turned counterclockwise. You may want to practice cap removable on the old bad drive before you do the repair on the good drive. It really isn't that hard to do so I know you can do it. To remove the cap you might try putting the drive in the vise with the pinion down and use a dull chisle to hammer the crimped edge away from the drive body. Good luck let us know how it goes.
Thank you for taking me through this repair step by step. The two drives look identical beside the 9 teeth pinion is bigger/longer. I will order a new one this evening, and while waiting I will try to do the repair.
I followed Stellars advise and took both drives apart and used the good parts from the used one and rebuild my broken one with these parts. It was not a difficult job at all.
The starter was fitted a few days later but I had some things to take care of before I could turn the key.
Ofcause, the new drive I ordered came just a few days ago, so it will be kept as spare if my diy rebuild wont last.
January 23rd, 2018, 11:58 AM
