power windows stopped working
#1
power windows stopped working
Within 20 minutes of putting the windows down on my 67 Delta Custom I attempted to put them up and got no response. None of the buttons on any of the doors are working. Of course I checked the fuse but other than that i'm not sure what else to check that would cause power failure.. there are no relays correct??
#2
Not sure about your year. Power for my 65 98 comes through the breaker located on firewall and is controlled by a relay in left footwell under panel. I believe the relay is activated by the key switch, and then provides power to window switches.
Check your wire diagram. In 65 the drawings are in detail in the body manual.
Check your wire diagram. In 65 the drawings are in detail in the body manual.
#3
Not sure about your year. Power for my 65 98 comes through the breaker located on firewall and is controlled by a relay in left footwell under panel. I believe the relay is activated by the key switch, and then provides power to window switches.
Check your wire diagram. In 65 the drawings are in detail in the body manual.
Check your wire diagram. In 65 the drawings are in detail in the body manual.
#4
On my 67 442 the relay is on the inside of the firewall about 2/3 or the way across the car from the left side. So about the area of the radio and is screwed to the firewall on the inside. Just above the heater box. I replaced the relay and the complete wiring harness as they get brittle after all this time. I replaced the window motors and switches as well. They are still a pain sometimes. I am going to replace them with aftermarket power windows in the spring. I did the rears a few years ago and they work great the factory ones not so much.
In the attached picture you can see the inside of the firewall with the dash out. the relay on the right in the picture is the power window relay. This is on a 67 442
Larry
In the attached picture you can see the inside of the firewall with the dash out. the relay on the right in the picture is the power window relay. This is on a 67 442
Larry
Last edited by lemoldsnut; December 2nd, 2016 at 03:51 AM.
#5
Not sure about your year. Power for my 65 98 comes through the breaker located on firewall and is controlled by a relay in left footwell under panel. I believe the relay is activated by the key switch, and then provides power to window switches.
Check your wire diagram. In 65 the drawings are in detail in the body manual.
Check your wire diagram. In 65 the drawings are in detail in the body manual.
On my 67 442 the relay is on the inside of the firewall about 2/3 or the way across the car from the left side. So about the area of the radio and is screwed to the firewall on the inside. Just above the heater box. I replaced the relay and the complete wiring harness as they get brittle after all this time. I replaced the window motors and switches as well. They are still a pain sometimes. I am going to replace them with aftermarket power windows in the spring. I did the rears a few years ago and they work great the factory ones not so much.
Larry
Larry
#6
Edited my post to show a picture. The power source is from the horn relay and goes to another relay on the firewall as previously stated. It is sometimes very hard to access with the fender on. It would be on the drivers side of the firewall on the engine side. That is the power source relay and the other one is the window control relay.
#8
I had two '68 fullsizes, and both had the breaker on the firewall, in the vicinity of the brake booster, and the relay up behind the left-hand kick panel, inside the body, in a place you don't know exists.
Check the breaker first.
- Eric
#9
Your right it is a breaker, on the outside of the firewall. Used the wrong term sorry. A hot lead comes from the battery post on the horn relay then to the breaker on the firewall then to the inside where it feeds the relay. I have had the breakers go bad and have a wire break there as well.
#10
#14
#15
You answered it better. My 98, the breaker is located on the other side of booster btwn the booster and fenderwell. Plus if I am not mistaken, I do not have that blower relay, added later years to stop problems at blower resister.
Sorry to digress Agua. check for volts going in and out of the breaker and let us know what you find. That breaker can be replaced with a common one found in parts stores, but I do not know what amp rating yours is. (MD?) It is usually on the breaker somewhere.
Sorry to digress Agua. check for volts going in and out of the breaker and let us know what you find. That breaker can be replaced with a common one found in parts stores, but I do not know what amp rating yours is. (MD?) It is usually on the breaker somewhere.
#16
Thanks, Patrick.
I've seen those breakers all over that general vicinity, and I sure can't keep track of it by year or model.
Testing it by confirming +12V to both sides (easiest with a test light to ground) will work fine, but another thing you can do is jump one terminal to the other - it shouldn't spark without the windows being operated - and then trying the windows. If it does spark when you touch the terminals together, then you've got a short, and need to find it and sort it out.
As for the breaker's value, I think they're either 30 or 40A, probably depending on year or model, and, yes, it should be marked on the breaker.
- Eric
I've seen those breakers all over that general vicinity, and I sure can't keep track of it by year or model.
Testing it by confirming +12V to both sides (easiest with a test light to ground) will work fine, but another thing you can do is jump one terminal to the other - it shouldn't spark without the windows being operated - and then trying the windows. If it does spark when you touch the terminals together, then you've got a short, and need to find it and sort it out.
As for the breaker's value, I think they're either 30 or 40A, probably depending on year or model, and, yes, it should be marked on the breaker.
- Eric
#17
Thanks, Patrick.
I've seen those breakers all over that general vicinity, and I sure can't keep track of it by year or model.
Testing it by confirming +12V to both sides (easiest with a test light to ground) will work fine, but another thing you can do is jump one terminal to the other - it shouldn't spark without the windows being operated - and then trying the windows. If it does spark when you touch the terminals together, then you've got a short, and need to find it and sort it out.
As for the breaker's value, I think they're either 30 or 40A, probably depending on year or model, and, yes, it should be marked on the breaker.
- Eric
I've seen those breakers all over that general vicinity, and I sure can't keep track of it by year or model.
Testing it by confirming +12V to both sides (easiest with a test light to ground) will work fine, but another thing you can do is jump one terminal to the other - it shouldn't spark without the windows being operated - and then trying the windows. If it does spark when you touch the terminals together, then you've got a short, and need to find it and sort it out.
As for the breaker's value, I think they're either 30 or 40A, probably depending on year or model, and, yes, it should be marked on the breaker.
- Eric
#18
[QUOTE=Aqua67;972420]You all are a wealth of information, I really appreciate you taking the time. I will get on it today and let you know the outcome!! Thanks again[/QUOTE
How do I take that out, doesn't even seem to be a way to disconnect the wires from the relay.
How do I take that out, doesn't even seem to be a way to disconnect the wires from the relay.
#20
I took it off and replaced it with a 30 amp and I still have no power windows. I'm starting to suspect a possible ground issue because my horn was just clicking until I played with the ground. I wobbled the wire and managed to get a horn but no windows and when I disconnected the wire all together I lost the horn. If the ground is not the issue don't know where else to look.
#21
So you did not test it for power or jump it as MD said.
The horn has nothing to do with the window circuit or the breaker, unless the connection of the horn relay and the junction of the wires at the junction block is loose, dirty and corroded. This connection is under the cap at the horn relay. Disconnect the battery and clean the wires bolted together here.
You need to test for volts at the breaker on both sides. The wire to the breaker comes from the junction located at the horn relay.
You could try a jumper wire from the battery + to the breaker if you do not have a test light or voltmeter. I strongly suggest getting one, along with factory manuals.
The horn has nothing to do with the window circuit or the breaker, unless the connection of the horn relay and the junction of the wires at the junction block is loose, dirty and corroded. This connection is under the cap at the horn relay. Disconnect the battery and clean the wires bolted together here.
You need to test for volts at the breaker on both sides. The wire to the breaker comes from the junction located at the horn relay.
You could try a jumper wire from the battery + to the breaker if you do not have a test light or voltmeter. I strongly suggest getting one, along with factory manuals.
#22
So you did not test it for power or jump it as MD said.
The horn has nothing to do with the window circuit or the breaker, unless the connection of the horn relay and the junction of the wires at the junction block is loose, dirty and corroded. This connection is under the cap at the horn relay. Disconnect the battery and clean the wires bolted together here.
You need to test for volts at the breaker on both sides. The wire to the breaker comes from the junction located at the horn relay.
You could try a jumper wire from the battery + to the breaker if you do not have a test light or voltmeter. I strongly suggest getting one, along with factory manuals.
The horn has nothing to do with the window circuit or the breaker, unless the connection of the horn relay and the junction of the wires at the junction block is loose, dirty and corroded. This connection is under the cap at the horn relay. Disconnect the battery and clean the wires bolted together here.
You need to test for volts at the breaker on both sides. The wire to the breaker comes from the junction located at the horn relay.
You could try a jumper wire from the battery + to the breaker if you do not have a test light or voltmeter. I strongly suggest getting one, along with factory manuals.
#23
Well, I'm glad you fixed it!
As for a test light, the best is probably just to solder a couple of leads to an 1156 bulb - it'll probably last longer than most testers that you could buy.
As for the horn, just test the components systematically, and you'll find the problem.
Unplug horns from relay, jump +12V to that wire. Horns blowing confirms horns and wire are good.
Unplug horn button from relay and jump relay terminal to ground. Horns should sound.
If not, then relay is bad.
If they do sound, then you have a problem in your horn button or the wiring from it to the relay.
Good luck!
- Eric
As for a test light, the best is probably just to solder a couple of leads to an 1156 bulb - it'll probably last longer than most testers that you could buy.
As for the horn, just test the components systematically, and you'll find the problem.
Unplug horns from relay, jump +12V to that wire. Horns blowing confirms horns and wire are good.
Unplug horn button from relay and jump relay terminal to ground. Horns should sound.
If not, then relay is bad.
If they do sound, then you have a problem in your horn button or the wiring from it to the relay.
Good luck!
- Eric
#24
... But this is a 98, and not a 442.
I had two '68 fullsizes, and both had the breaker on the firewall, in the vicinity of the brake booster, and the relay up behind the left-hand kick panel, inside the body, in a place you don't know exists.
Check the breaker first.
- Eric
I had two '68 fullsizes, and both had the breaker on the firewall, in the vicinity of the brake booster, and the relay up behind the left-hand kick panel, inside the body, in a place you don't know exists.
Check the breaker first.
- Eric
#25
Okay, I've owned 2 1968 F/S cars, but not a '67, so I can't tell you this from personal experience, but here's the page from the FBM that shows the relay locations.
You will notice that there is an error: The legends for the second and third illustrations are swapped... Or is it the illustrations themselves?
I believe that the legends are correct, but the titles and illustrations have been swapped as a unit, based on GM's normal habit of placing things in the order: Chebby, Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Cadillac.
You can see the location of the relay in the illustration.
- Eric
You will notice that there is an error: The legends for the second and third illustrations are swapped... Or is it the illustrations themselves?
I believe that the legends are correct, but the titles and illustrations have been swapped as a unit, based on GM's normal habit of placing things in the order: Chebby, Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Cadillac.
You can see the location of the relay in the illustration.
- Eric
#26
Okay, I've owned 2 1968 F/S cars, but not a '67, so I can't tell you this from personal experience, but here's the page from the FBM that shows the relay locations.
You will notice that there is an error: The legends for the second and third illustrations are swapped... Or is it the illustrations themselves?
I believe that the legends are correct, but the titles and illustrations have been swapped as a unit, based on GM's normal habit of placing things in the order: Chebby, Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Cadillac.
You can see the location of the relay in the illustration.
- Eric
You will notice that there is an error: The legends for the second and third illustrations are swapped... Or is it the illustrations themselves?
I believe that the legends are correct, but the titles and illustrations have been swapped as a unit, based on GM's normal habit of placing things in the order: Chebby, Pontiac, Olds, Buick, Cadillac.
You can see the location of the relay in the illustration.
- Eric
#29
#30
Terminal 85 to ground
Terminal 86 to pink wire
Terminal 30 to orange w/ black stripe
Terminal 87 to red w/ white stripe
Terminal 87a not used
Before wasting any money on a relay, however, temporarily connect the orange and red wires together and see if the windows work. If the still don't work, the problem is not the relay.
#33
Any generic Bosch style 40 amp automotive relay will work fine. Connect as follows:
Terminal 85 to ground
Terminal 86 to pink wire
Terminal 30 to orange w/ black stripe
Terminal 87 to red w/ white stripe
Terminal 87a not used
Before wasting any money on a relay, however, temporarily connect the orange and red wires together and see if the windows work. If the still don't work, the problem is not the relay.
Terminal 85 to ground
Terminal 86 to pink wire
Terminal 30 to orange w/ black stripe
Terminal 87 to red w/ white stripe
Terminal 87a not used
Before wasting any money on a relay, however, temporarily connect the orange and red wires together and see if the windows work. If the still don't work, the problem is not the relay.
#35
That's the bugger.
Red is Battery, Orange is power to windows, Pink is Ign (trigger), which energizes the coil and then goes to ground via the relay case.
As Joe said, just replace with a generic 40A SPST "foglight" relay.
- Eric
Red is Battery, Orange is power to windows, Pink is Ign (trigger), which energizes the coil and then goes to ground via the relay case.
As Joe said, just replace with a generic 40A SPST "foglight" relay.
- Eric
#36
#37
Any generic Bosch style 40 amp automotive relay will work fine. Connect as follows:
Terminal 85 to ground
Terminal 86 to pink wire
Terminal 30 to orange w/ black stripe
Terminal 87 to red w/ white stripe
Terminal 87a not used
Before wasting any money on a relay, however, temporarily connect the orange and red wires together and see if the windows work. If the still don't work, the problem is not the relay.
Terminal 85 to ground
Terminal 86 to pink wire
Terminal 30 to orange w/ black stripe
Terminal 87 to red w/ white stripe
Terminal 87a not used
Before wasting any money on a relay, however, temporarily connect the orange and red wires together and see if the windows work. If the still don't work, the problem is not the relay.
#38
I should have said that the red wire does not test hot which leaves me stumped because everything else including the breaker does
#39
Pink is the trigger wire from the ACC terminal in the fuse box, which is hot with the key in RUN.
Orange w/black stripe is the power feed from the circuit breaker that should be hot at all times.
Red w/white stripe is the feed TO the power window circuit and is not hot until the relay is energized.
#40
And this is why you need to actually read the wiring diagram - which is in the Fisher Body Manual for the power window circuit.
Pink is the trigger wire from the ACC terminal in the fuse box, which is hot with the key in RUN.
Orange w/black stripe is the power feed from the circuit breaker that should be hot at all times.
Red w/white stripe is the feed TO the power window circuit and is not hot until the relay is energized.
Pink is the trigger wire from the ACC terminal in the fuse box, which is hot with the key in RUN.
Orange w/black stripe is the power feed from the circuit breaker that should be hot at all times.
Red w/white stripe is the feed TO the power window circuit and is not hot until the relay is energized.