pcard

Hi Guys:
for a 1970 Cutlass restored fully in 2012, 455 rebuilt 2012. Starter rebuild 2012.
I have never had any problem starting the car before now. I am driving from Newport RI to Springfield for the OCA Nationals, and on Saturday, a very hot day, left Newport and on the first stop had a problem restarting the car.
The ignition switch turns, GEN light comes on, but no response from the starter solenoid. Sweated it out, moving the shifter, fussing with the shift linkage on the firewall. Nothing.
The door buzzer was going off nicely, and I tested the battery - good charge. Fussed with the ignition connector under the dash. Nothing
After about 30 minutes of trying everything I could think of in frustration I gave it one more go and she worked.
On the second stop, same thing. Again frustrated, about 30 minutes later, she worked. It was very hot out and I was sweating.

I had no problem starting up in the morning on Sunday, and it was fine until about the third stop. Then, nothing from the solenoid.
I checked the voltage at the ignition switch connector and the neutral safety switch harness connector - got a reading.
Then I noticed that my lights were on. I turned them off and the car started right up.

Again today, no problem in the morning, or the first stop. The second stop she would not start. My lights were on. I turned them off and she started right up.

I would have thought that I could crank the car with the lights on, but it seems that the draw is too much, and the solenoid does not even engage.

Is this a sign of a bad solenoid?

stevengerard

Typical problem. I have had that issue off and on over the years, finally broke down and got a high torque starter, no one sees the darn thing anyway.

What I did when I had the original starter in the car was I carried a spray bottle with me and as soon as I stopped for something I crawled under and soaked the starter. Most times but not all the car started up right up after a few minutes. I've been stranded for an hour on really hot days.

Folks will tell you it can be anything form the starter missing the heat shield to the battery cables being old to a bad ground. Replacing the starter was the best thing I did. After 20 years the car finally starts right away all the time.

pcard

Thanks Steven.
I was thinking of getting one of those condensed air dust-off sprays - they shoot out cold air and they have a nozzle too.

Does the high torque starter have a different solenoid?

oldcutlass

There are a few variations of the hi torque starters, I have one on my car. The nicest part is the reduced weight, not hard to install. I'd check the connections on your starter, make sure the ring terminals are crimped solidly with no frayed wires. Same goes with the terminal block at your horn relay and battery terminals. Also make sure your ground terminal is clean and tight on your block.

And then starter solenoids just get overheated and swell, time to replace.

pcard

Thanks!

Can someone explain why having my lights on makes a difference? Is it just a matter of the voltage available for the solenoid, and being hot the solenoid needs more juice?

I was thinking, if the problem becomes worse, then using my remote starter switch, running directly from the battery. This would be temporary obviously - I am 1000 miles from home.

MDchanic

I have a high-torque starter on my 350 - it's an OEM starter made for a high compression 455.
Wings it over like nothing at any temperature.

In your case, though, the starter didn't even have a chance to show its stuff, because the solenoid wasn't clicking.

Before changing any big-time parts, I'd recommend this:
Attach a decent-size (10-12ga) wire to the S terminal of the solenoid (the terminal near the outside, with the purple wire), and leave it coiled up, out of the way, where it won't get burned.
The next time you get the car good and hot and it won't crank, open the hood and unroll this wire, then
1. connect your voltmeter between the wire and the (-) battery terminal and turn the key - see what the voltage out of the wire is, and
2. remove the voltmeter and touch the end of the wire to the (+) battery terminal.
If the voltage is well below 12, and the starter cranks right over off the battery, then you've got enough resistance in the line to the solenoid to keep it from pulling in.
The solution is to install a relay (30 to 40A "foglight relay") triggered by the ignition switch, that brings battery power straight to the solenoid.
Either that or clean EVERY connection between the battery and the solenoid, and test EVERY wire segment for resistance.

I doubt you need a new starter, though. These things worked fine in all weather for millions of people for many years.

- Eric

pcard

Thanks Eric. I can do that in the field.