I'll guess the answer is yes, but can a no-start condition (engine cranks just fine but will not catch and start) be caused by a bad starter solenoid?

This is my '73 Delta 88 with a 350 2-bbl. I just finished replacing the power steering pump as described in other threads. Did the bleeding with the wheels off the ground and the engine running, then lowered the car (engine off) and was ready to take it for a test drive.

Ran into the house, grabbed my wallet, told the missus I'd be back in a few minutes, restarted the engine, and it's running fine. I get about halfway down the driveway, and, without warning and for no apparent reason, the engine died as surely as if I had turned off the key. Ever since (this was yesterday), the engine will crank to its heart's content. But it will not start. The car was blocking the driveway, and I ultimately had to call a tow truck and have him hook it up and put the car back in my garage. The only good thing is that it happened in the driveway and not a minute later and a mile down the road.

I'm certain it's not fuel. The tank is at least half full, I can smell fuel when I pump the pedal, and I feel wet gas if I stick my finger into the carburetor throat. I tried starting fluid, anyway, but no help.

I used a spark tester and found no spark at the plug I tested. I had figured it was an electrical issue. I checked the coil, which is only about a year old, and the primary and secondary resistances are within spec. There just is apparently no power getting to the coil. A check of the wiring diagram shows that power to the coil comes from the starter solenoid. Hence my question. The service manual no-start diagnosis chart does not list the starter solenoid as a possible cause. It mentions the coil and distributor points (among other things). I have not done anything with the distributor except remove the cap and inspect. Everything looks good, nearly new, actually, except for the rotor, the metal tip of which was a little worn, so I replaced it. No help, which didn't surprise me.

​​​​​I would think that a points problem would manifest itself slowly, with the car becoming increasingly difficult to start over time. The problem is an abrupt failure, starting just fine one minute and then deader than a doornail the next. Something a severed electrical connection might do. But all wiring that I can see from up top looks good.

If the solenoid is a possible suspect, can it be replaced without removing the starter? I'm guessing not, but one can always hope.

Thank you!

 

My experiences w/ a bad solenoid has always been a failure to engage the engine. If the solenoid is engaging the engine and the engine is turning over, I suspect the issue is not the solenoid.

 

Ha. Something came to mind. You replaced the PS pump? Doesn't the negative (-) battery post terminal cable connect to the engine block at the PS pump bolt? Did the wire break, come loose, corroded, dislodged maybe?

 

The solenoid uses the same contact disc to engage the starter motor as it does to send power to the coil, however there ARE two different sets of contacts in the solenoid end cap that this disc connects to, the large one for the starter motor and the small one for the "R" terminal that the bypass wire connects to. If this latter contact is badly pitted, it IS possible (though not likely) that the solenoid can spin the starter but not send power to the coil. It is more likely that the problem is elsewhere, however.

 

The starter solenoid’s job is to engage the flex plate / flywheel so the starter motor can turn the engine. It does have an electrical connection to the distributor to provide full 12 Volts while cranking, so it’s possible that relay contact is not operating correctly. Should be easy to check with a voltmeter while cranking over.

 

Replace the points condenser. Also check for a frayed 'grounded' wire from the coil to the points.

 

First check to see if you actually have power to the coil+ terminal in both start and run positions of the ignition switch.

 

Thanks, everyone, for the excellent advice.

The story ended this morning on a happy note. I did get the car started.

Here’s what I did. First, I did what oldcutlass suggested and that I should have done right at the beginning. I checked for voltage on the coil + terminal, and I had 12 volts, so that ruled out my starter solenoid theory, as Joe P suggested that it would and predicted that the problem is elsewhere.

So where is “elsewhere?” Well, let me say that I’m not going to reveal what apparently fixed the problem until I am safely behind lead shielding!

First, last night, before retiring for the night, I decided for no real big reason other than to knowingly violate Joe P’s oft-stated advice to diagnose a problem before throwing money at it to buy a new coil. I said earlier that I replaced what was apparently the original coil shortly after getting the car about a year ago. I did it as part of a major refreshing of the electrical system with new plugs and plug wires, new alternator, things like that.

The car did run when I got it, so it’s not like the old coil was bad. But you know how it is. All of the components I replaced were 50 years old and looked it. The plug wires were cracked and covered with grime. You know how it is. You don’t want to cringe too much every time you open the hood and look at the engine.

Anyway, the new coil was of a different brand, but it always worked fine. Was it the source of my current problem? I don’t know, but I was never totally happy with it because it is about 2 mm larger in diameter than the original coil and thus wouldn’t fit nicely in the circular metal bracket that attaches to the top of the manifold where it supposed to rest. So I had to jury-rig something, and I promised myself that, one day, I would get a coil that fits the bracket.

So last night I ordered from Amazon because they can do overnight—yes, I know, I’m going straight to hell— an AC/Delco brand coil. It came this morning, and it is identical to the original, which I still had because I never throw anything away. Also, and not surprisingly, it says right on the box, “Made in China.” I know this discussion has been had many times on this site, but if you want to drive a vintage car in 2024, you sometimes have no choice but Chinese-made if you want and need a part to keep your car on the road. My operating principle is that I will buy Chinese-made parts as long as they’re a name brand because I assume the owners of those brands do not want to sully their reputations by attaching their names to inferior parts. So far, I’ve not been disappointed. Also, every other part I've purchased in this episode (new points, rotor, distributor cap) were made in Mexico. One was "Standard Motor Products" brand (the points), and the others were also AC/Delco.








I put the new coil on the car, and, when I did this, I did something else that I did just offhand. I sand-papered the U-shaped lugs at the ends of the wires that attach to the positive and negative terminals of the coil. These are the original wires, and they look it, having corrosion on them. But it wasn’t that bad, I didn’t think, and the car ran for a year with them the way they are.

But I thought I’d clean them up real shiny anyway, because I’m getting desperate now. I was then about to do what tru-blue 442 suggested and replace the points condenser. In fact, I had purchased previously a new set of points with the condenser attached, and I was going to put that on the car.

BUT FIRST, I said to myself, with the new coil and cleaned contacts, give the engine another chance to start before taking the distributor apart. I barely touched the key, and the car started just like New York. I was stunned. Happy, of course, but stunned. I brought my wife out to the garage to let her hear the sound of the car running and to confirm that it wasn't just my imagination.

Did this mean that all I had to do when my car was stuck in the driveway two days ago and I had to call the tow truck was to take five minutes, clean the contacts, and I would have been good to go? Probably. Talk about live and learn. But it was very satisfying to hear that engine fire right up and idle so smoothly.

I did then complete the mission that I had originally had, which was to take the new power steering pump on a test drive, and it worked fine. The car didn’t stall this time, either, although I drove it back and forth up and down the driveway a few times to give it a chance to. But, darn that thing, it just kept on running. I told my wife to keep her cell phone handy, off I went for a drive of a few miles. No problems.


Here's a photo of the original coil. The condition of the contact terminals is a good indication of the condition of the wire lugs. But after sanding them, I could see my reflection in them. Yes, I know, the center terminal where the wire to the distributor attaches looks like death warmed over. 50+ years will do that.

The new Delco coil does not say "Delco-Remy" on it.

 

Glad you got it figured out. Little victories are always nice.