Can someone confirm that the power window relay plug for my 70 442 is wired correctly? When I got the car 3 months ago the power windows did not work. I have them working now, but the relay is always hot. I have the orange/black wire hooked up to the battery lug at the fuse panel so it is always hot (there is no circuit breaker and I’ll address that in another thread). I have the pink wire hooked to the accessory lug at the fuse panel and have verified that it is only hot with the ignition key turned to the on or accessor position. The ignition lug at the fuse panel does not work so that is why I’m using the accessory lug. My original relay was DOA. The replacement relay energizes when I plug it in, and the windows operate, even with the ignition turned off. I’m assuming the windows should only operate with the key turned on if wired correctly. I do have the power window wiring diagram in the Fisher manual. I suspect the wires at the plug are in the wrong positions. Am I right?

 

Yes, I believe you are correct. The "picture" of the relay plug doesn't actually match up (align) properly in the diagram. However, the numbers (70, 39, 60) do demonstrate the opposite of your picture; so, I think you have 70 & 39 backwards.

 

If you look at the orientation of the relay plug, you can see where 70 aligns.

 

I reversed 70 and 39 and now the windows don’t work. So it might depend if you’re looking at the front of the plug or the back. However, with this set up the relay does not energizes immediately, but it does energizes with the power window buttons. I think it’s time to pull the wiring, take off the electrical tape and try to figure out what’s going on.

 

So I just started pulling out the wiring in the driver’s door. First I disconnected the drivers door power window motor and then pulled out the wiring and there is a rivet in the middle of the brown and blue wire to the motor. Looks like it’s been there a while. I’m not sure this is the issue, but it’s a start. When I originally pulled the door panels off a few weeks ago the wires in both doors were labeled. Looks like others have been here before……

 

Be aware that the relay is just an isolation relay that switches power to the window circuit when the key is in the RUN position. It will always be hot if the key is on.

 

Can you post a picture of the back side of the rivet?

 

I thought I took a photo of the back side of the rivet, but I did not. It’ll be a few days before I’m back up at my lakehouse were this car is stored. I did remove it and it’s plastic. It looks like a push in style clip (similar to door weatherstrip) and looks like it is intentional. The clip did not intrude into the wire. Maybe it’s a retainer clip. I’ll submit a picture when I get back up there.

 

That rivet is likely a plastic hold-down that was used to hold the wires in place; the barbed end likely broke off in the door. I think your first wiring pin-out was correct; however, the pink wire (#39) should come from a "keyed" feed in the fuse box under the dash and should only be hot when the key is in the "RUN" position. If the pink wire is run directly to the battery, or comes from a BAT connection in the fuse box, then the relay is always energized and the windows will work even without the key in the ignition. If the relay is always energized it will eventually drain the battery if the car isn't driven regularly. Here is a generic power window schematic for your reference.

Rodney

 

 

Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately, things don't work as expected. I think this is just a relay issue! The car does not have a circuit breaker and there are no piercings on the firewall that would suggest there ever was a circuit breaker. I'm starting too question whether I have 2 new relays that are bad or ????

As stated, I have 2 new relays. I got them from Classic Industries 2 weeks apart. Their product number is HR614. Both relays work exactly the same as outlined below. The relay is energized when the ignition is OFF (no key in the ignition) and, therefore, the power windows work. The relay is NOT energized when the the ignition is turned to RUN. So right now the relay is working exactly opposite of the way it should. Today, in an effort to simplify testing I fabricated a new orange/black lead. The orange/black lead is hooked up to the BAT lug on the fuse panel (see fuse panel picture) and runs straight to the relay. The pink wire is hooked to the IGN lug on the fuse panel (see fuse panel picture). I have disconnected the red/white lead that runs to the power windows. The only two wires I am testing is the orange/black (always hot) and pink (keyed) that run directly from the fuse panel to the relay. I've done this to try and eliminate any potential "noise" from the 52 YO factory wire of the power window components.

Test 1 - voltage and continuity - testing wires only, relay disconnected
ignition off
orange/black wire has continuity and ~12.4 volts
pink wire has continuity and zero volts

Test 2 - voltage and continuity - testing wires only, relay disconnected
ignition turned to RUN
orang/black wire has continuity and ~12.4 volts
pink wire has continuity and ~12.4 volts

Both test 1 and test 2 provide wiring results as expected when the relay is not hooked up.

When I hook the relay up in test 1 the relay immediately energizes even though the ignition is off and the the pink wire has zero volts. If I then turn the ignition to run (or start the car) the relay is no longer energized even though the pink wire now has ~12.4 volts. This happens regardless if the orange/black wire is hooked to 1 and the pink to 3 (see relay picture) OR if the orange/black wire is hooked to 3 and the pink wire is hooked to 1. Both wires must be hooked up for the relay to energizes.

Is there a generic test I can do to verify if the relay is good? Do I need to power the orange/black and pink wires differently like with a circuit breaker? Do I convert to manual windows (just kidding)? I don't know what else to do to try and fix this.




not my car. copied from the internet

 

Are you connecting the metal case of the relay to ground when performing these tests?

 

I know it's been a year ago, but did you ever figure out if the relay was junk?
I'm dealing with a similar issue. I get no power to the red/white wire that feeds the window switch using a new relay I just purchased. I'm really hitting a wall here.

Mark

 

Hi Mark, this issue still has not been resolved. I have a buddy who repairs medical analysis equipment for a living. He came in to town last year to help me diagnosis the issue. We came to the conclusion that 1) the power windows are wired correctly and 2) they work exactly opposite of the way they should. We suspected that the issue is in the ignition. It was beer thirty and work on the car stopped at that point and that's where it sits. The relay is hot with the ignition off and not when is in the run or accessory position. My buddy is going to come back some time in April and we're going to tearing into the ignition wiring. He travels the world with his job. I understanding the "hitting the wall" thing. I'll let you know when we come up with a solution. Right now the interior is out of the car and the power window wires are disconnected from the relay and fuse box. After 9 months I finally received new Legendary interior panels. If I need to power the windows I just plug the orange wire directly into the fuse box, raise or lower the window(s) and disconnect.

 

 

Back to working on my power window really issue. To reiterate, ingntion key off, window relay energizes and windows operate. When ignition key is on, window relay de-energizes and off course windows do not work. This is tested with the relay mounted on to a grounded chassis, so what is grounding the relay? It's been explained that the chassis of the relay is ground for the pink terminal, I ohmed out Pink terminal (control voltage) to relay chassis and no short or continuity.

What perplexs me is that I get continuity between Pink (relay control voltage) and Orange/Black (12VDC battery voltage.) when testing the relay on a bench. Is this correct? Also tried the other terminals and nothing. Am I missing something with an automotive relay operating differently then any other relay? For me the relay is shorted internally between relay control voltage and battery voltage? (See attached pic of relay ohmed out.)

From my earlier question could I be dealing with two faulty window relays since they behave in the same manner.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

Stop.

First, there is no ground wire. The relay housing is ground where it bolts to the firewall. With the relay off the car, you should measure continuity (near zero ohms) between terminal 39 (where the pink wire connects) and the relay housing. There should not be continuity between terminal 39 and either of the other two terminals. If there is, the relay is bad.

There should be open circuit between terminals 60 and 70 with the relay de-energized. If you apply power to terminal 39 on the relay and ground to the housing, the contacts between 60 and 70 should close and show continuity across those two terminals.

That's all there is to this relay. Any different results testing the relay off the car and the relay is bad, period.

Now assuming the relay tests out good, What is the voltage on the pink wire that connects to terminal 39? It should be zero with the key off and battery voltage with the key in RUN. If not, figure out why.

The orange/black wire that connects to terminal 60 should be battery voltage at all times, key off or on.

The red wire that connects to terminal 70 is the power feed to the window motors. There should be no voltage on that wire when the plug is disconnected from the relay. If you temporarily jumper the orange/black and red wires together in the connector, the windows should work all the time.

 

Once again, thank you Joe. Both new relays I received last year test bad. A new relay from a different vendor is now on order.

 

It's good information if you'd share the part # & manufacturer of the bad relays to assist others in making a more informed decision.

 

I got the relays from Classic Industries. I paid for the first one and they sent the second one as a replacement as I told them it was defective. Strange that both worked the same. Attached is a photo of the boxes.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Helpful.

 

I received the new relay yesterday from Heartbeat City, and to my utter joy, the power windows now work as expected. Interestingly, I did not get continuity between 39 and the housing when this relay was off the car. The new relay is substantially better quality than the one I got from Classic Industries. On to the next repair. Thank you so much to all that have provided input. Here’s a picture of the box from Heartbeat City.

 

Everything I've used from Lectric Limited has been first-world quality. When I saw that name on the box, and before I read the post, I thought, "your problem is solved."

Congratulations on the results of your perseverance.