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The PW in my '68 Olds have been r e a l slow going up for years. I bought some new motors a few years and finally installed them today. They go down fast but I have to help them back up with my hands. Why? The spring looks and feels fine. Do they wear out? I greased the tracks/motor/gear to no avail. Anyone have similar issues? Has anyone replaced the coiled spring? I know they should have tension on them in the window down position and not much at the top. I am baffled.
One thing you could do is make a custom harness, with fuse, direct to another battery, and see if the motors get more energetic off of some other power. This would eliminate/confirm the car wiring being the problem.
The PW in my '68 Olds have been r e a l slow going up for years. I bought some new motors a few years and finally installed them today. They go down fast but I have to help them back up with my hands. Why? The spring looks and feels fine. Do they wear out? I greased the tracks/motor/gear to no avail. Anyone have similar issues? Has anyone replaced the coiled spring? I know they should have tension on them in the window down position and not much at the top. I am baffled.
Clean all the grease out of the tracks with acetone or brake clean. then spray this with silicone only. Never grease. ALSO make sure the regulator is not binding up. if you remove the window from the regulator can you move the window up smoothly by hand ?
Clean all the grease out of the tracks with acetone or brake clean. then spray this with silicone only. Never grease. ALSO make sure the regulator is not binding up. if you remove the window from the regulator can you move the window up smoothly by hand ?
Yes, without the regulator the window moves easily up and down by hand. I will remove the grease and silicone. The Fisher body manual said white grease? Maybe there are better things 50 years later.
Yes, without the regulator the window moves easily up and down by hand. I will remove the grease and silicone. The Fisher body manual said white grease? Maybe there are better things 50 years later.
1971 CS convertible w/ electric windows. When I had all panels removed front/rear (2019) I applied white grease in the exact spots identified in the Fisher Body Service Manual. Window operation up/down very fast.
One thing you could do is make a custom harness, with fuse, direct to another battery, and see if the motors get more energetic off of some other power. This would eliminate/confirm the car wiring being the problem.
Easy enough to do, it would eliminate the wiring being the issue.
Yes, without the regulator the window moves easily up and down by hand. I will remove the grease and silicone. The Fisher body manual said white grease? Maybe there are better things 50 years later.
Yup,, most people resort to grease. but if you think about this, grease attracts dirt, lots of it which gets into the tracs. At my shop we use silicone only, but who am I to argue with the general with the white grease..Also ck to see what kind of voltage you have going to this motor, maybe there is a voltage drop.
Last edited by zl1 camaro; May 28th, 2024 at 10:00 AM.
Yup,, most people resort to grease. but if you think about this, grease attracts dirt, lots of it which gets into the tracs. At my shop we use silicone only, but who am I to argue with the general with the white grease..Also ck to see what kind of voltage you have going to this motor, maybe there is a voltage drop.
I am cleaning them out already and ordered a can of Permatex Silicone spray on Amazon. I also got a couple of new springs (why not?). They are for a corvette, likely the same spring GM used in everything though I have no crossover book. Easy enough to toss them in while I am servicing everything.
When I was raising the glass it just stopped, but the slightest pressure on the bottom of the window made it raise easily. If I rolled the window down, say 4 inches or so, it would roll back up on it's own. I put the battery on a charger over night as It has sat in the garage all winter. It may be time for a new one. I did not try raising the windows with the engine running. I should have come to think of it.
Grounds ground grounds....To the motor to the switches to the relays.
Put a jumper to a good ground and see if it improves. If it doesn't Then do a direct 12vdc jump to the motor. Does it improve? Then positive sides of things probably need a cleaning too. 56 year old connections...
Look for the voltage drop with a voltage drop test (You Tube it).
Grounds ground grounds....To the motor to the switches to the relays.
Put a jumper to a good ground and see if it improves. If it doesn't Then do a direct 12vdc jump to the motor. Does it improve? Then positive sides of things probably need a cleaning too. 56 year old connections...
Look for the voltage drop with a voltage drop test (You Tube it).
I will do so in the morning. I like being well grounded
If you decide to clean the guides and rollers, don't use a petroleum based grease; sometimes it will break-down the plastic rollers and they will eventually break. I use a silicone based lubricant called Sil-Glyde on any plastic part that needs lubrication.
Electrically, the circuit grounds are the first thing to check. The grounding paths in these cars leave much to be desired. For example, the grounding path for the door window motor is as follows; the motor is grounded through the inner door shell, which is grounded through the door hinges (which are actually 3 connection points, bolts on both sides and the hinge pivot), the body is grounded through the engine block at the firewall through a large gauge wire, then finally the engine is grounded through another large gauge wire bolted to the LH cylinder head behind the PS pump. Often times the grounding wire at the firewall is missing, overlooked after an engine rebuild. This leaves many significant points where the grounds could fail or become compromised, or the connection points become corroded or rusty.
These motors draw about 5A unloaded on the bench and even more when pushing the weight of the window; even an extra 1Ω of resistance in the ground path can reduce the voltage at the motor 5v. As stated previously, run a dedicated power and ground wire to directly to the battery for testing purposes to see if the motors can lift the windows. If this improves the situation clean all electrical contacts (including grounding points) and clean an re-tighten the one door bolt on each side of the hinge to ensure a good ground path.
Electrically, the circuit grounds are the first thing to check. The grounding paths in these cars leave much to be desired. For example, the grounding path for the door window motor is as follows; the motor is grounded through the inner door shell, which is grounded through the door hinges (which are actually 3 connection points, bolts on both sides and the hinge pivot), the body is grounded through the engine block at the firewall through a large gauge wire, then finally the engine is grounded through another large gauge wire bolted to the LH cylinder head behind the PS pump. Often times the grounding wire at the firewall is missing, overlooked after an engine rebuild. This leaves many significant points where the grounds could fail or become compromised, or the connection points become corroded or rusty.
These motors draw about 5A unloaded on the bench and even more when pushing the weight of the window; even an extra 1Ω of resistance in the ground path can reduce the voltage at the motor 5v. As stated previously, run a dedicated power and ground wire to directly to the battery for testing purposes to see if the motors can lift the windows. If this improves the situation clean all electrical contacts (including grounding points) and clean an re-tighten the one door bolt on each side of the hinge to ensure a good ground path.
Good luck.
Rodney
I got a chance to work on it today. I ran a 10 gauge ground from one of the motor mounting bolts to the steering column 3/8's" bolt that mounts the column to the dash. A slight improvement but not a fix. I was disappointed to say the least. I am still going to run one on the right door as the hinges are not a suitable ground path in my opinion. I highly doubt the new springs will cure it but for 25 bones it is worth a try. They should be here in a couple days and I'll slap them in and report back.
Historically they have been slowing down over the years (like their owner). Maybe the springs are sapped. In the meantime I have pearl white seats that need deep cleaning. Tool of choice today is an oral B electric toothbrush with a stiff head on it and Simple Green. Seems to be working real well with minimal effort. Getting the grooves clean in that upholstery.
I installed the new window reg springs and, as I expected, no change. So far I have replaced the motors, added 10 gauge grounds, new regulator springs and re-aligned and re-lubed the tracks. Next up I am going to use jumper cables to a known battery to the driver's window motor and see what happens. I cannot come up with a good answer other than low amps. I know I have volts, amps is the issue.
They roll down fast, they hesitate going back up. Driver's (left) window is not bad, right side is awful. The console, courtesy and quarter lights (convertible) dim pulling the windows up.
The console, courtesy and quarter lights (convertible) dim pulling the windows up.
It appears you're losing (impeding) a solid ground connection or multiple ground connections (e.g. you're drawing amperage). Yes, while many older cars & some newer cars can often dim lamps when activating one or more electric windows, I've found cleaning ALL the grounds substantially improves circuitry.
I'd start w/: (1) Battery>Block; (2) Battery>Metal Side Baffle at Radiator Shroud; (3) Rear Engine Braided Ground Strap>Firewall; and, every ground wire along the electric motor(s) pathway including the switches themselves.
A voltage drop test will pinpoint where it's losing the ground (see post #2).
Are these PW motors grounded at the point of installation? Or is it through a dedicated ground wire within the harness?
Get the correct wire diagram/schematic and trace it out.
If they are going up hard and down easy that would lead me toward a poor (switch) contact or connection.
I'd test each motor in situ jumped directly to a 12VDC battery. Do they go up n down when tested with a remote battery right at the motor?
my 1982 power windows have the Tape in a track . sounds like you have a different system than mine . i use this Marine Sail Kote. i am on the coast so local marine stores have it . it is used by sail boat racers , Americas cup racers use this . so is used in a salt water environment , is a dry lube . my tape and track were greased at the factory , the grease collected dirt and grit until some thing broke or burned out .
Epilog. I hate it when people fail to post the correction on threads like this so here is mine.
Silicone spayed all of the tracks after cleaning them with thinner...Helped a little
Added 10 gauge ground leads form the motor bolts to the dash...Helped a little more
New motors in both doors...Helped a bit more
New springs on the regulators...Helped a tad
Slight adjustment to the window tracks to remove binding I noticed while pulling them up by hand...Helped some
New 10 gauge feed wire from battery circuit breaker to window relay...Helped a ton.
Fastest windows in a vintage car I have ever owned. Watch your fingers.
New 10 gauge feed wire from battery circuit breaker to window relay...Helped a ton.
Fastest windows in a vintage car I have ever owned. Watch your fingers.
May 27th, 2024, 08:38 PM
