dennisspeaks

OK I have replaced both turn signal switch because the taillights both upper and lower were turning, there is no light on the dash turning for the right side so I am guessing that is the bulb and the right side rear turn signals only flash 3 or four times the stop. The driver's side is ok, but I am still not getting any brak stop lights. All bulbs have been checked and all four are working. I am also not getting any reverse lights but that is not as important at the moment.

Are there any other relays or switches to replace? Since the sockets are so old I would like to go ahead and replace them, where can I find new ones?

Any suggestions on what to check next? Thanks.

Junkman

Start by checking all the grounds. This sounds like a classic poor ground condition. Also, check the grounds at the steering column and dash. When I think that there is a bad ground, I clamp a wire to the neutral terminal of the battery, and then start touching bare metal parts where the light bulbs plug in. The wire that I use is about 35 feet long 12 gauge, so I can reach just about anywhere on the car without fighting the wire. Once I find where the problem is, then I start looking for how the factory grounded the circuit, and clean, repair, and reestablish the ground.

dennisspeaks

Thanks Junkman. While messing around today I disconnected the upper right taillight and with it disconnected the right lower taillight flashes with the turn signal and also works as a brake light so somewhere upstream wires must be crossed. Logic says the the uppers are the turn signals and lowers are the brake lights, is this true?

BosMobile

X2 ,with junkman.Any time an electrical problem is doing something real crazy,like working part time or going back and fourth,then you should look for ground problems.Get a 12 volt test lite,Test circuit at several locations ,up to the problem for fire.Then just put a jumper wire to a known ground.That will narrow the possible problems.Those light sockets are very suspect as well and are avalible at most parts stores new,for cheap.Good luck ,BO

Junkman

I don't know exactly the lighting arrangement, but based on a very old and foggy memory, I believe that both upper and lower worked together. I also don't subscribe to the theory that "somewhere upstream wires must be crossed." because wires don't get crossed by themselves. Someone must have done it, and I find that a remote, if non existent theory. What is more likely, is that the sockets or bulbs are the problems. One thing that is very common today, is the bulbs have different "values" as a result of poor manufacturing procedures. I always try to buy NOS bulbs at swap meets that were manufactured in the good ole US of A. If that isn't a possibility, then I use all the same bulbs from the same package to keep everything in balance. Some say that it doesn't matter, however, with better than 50 years of chasing electrical problems, I say it does.... and you are not going to change my mind. If the bulbs are of a different value, then it will cause you problems when chasing problems within the circuits. I have seen where a poor ground will find its way back to the radio circuit, and when you step on the break, the radio will crackle and come to life. Unless someone has deliberately cut and spliced wire, or the wire harness has deteriorated to the point where the insulation is falling off, I assume that the harness is good as manufactured.

dennisspeaks

Thanks for your input, I had planned on buying 4 sylvania 1157's tomorrow, tried calling for the sockets, they only sold universal so I am taking a socket and seeing if they matched up.

I wasn't saying that the wires crossed themselves, of course that don't happen. The harness does look pretty decent for being so old,

Thanks for your input!

BosMobile

Hey,Try to go throug the testing process first.This can save you alot of cost.Have a helper hold the brake petall,check the circuit from frt. to rear.Start at the rear,if you have good juice there ,its probably on the ground side.Later,BO

dennisspeaks

Doing this tomorrow if the weather permits, thanks.

dennisspeaks

Part way home, left side is working both brake and turn signal. Both right lights come on but no brake or turn. I know the lower bulb socket is bad as it is loose. Is there a way of changing out the sockets??? Also I found a loose wire under the dash, after getting a pdf today, looks like a ground wire is off. Still no blinking for right side on the tail lights, front light or the dash light. Tomorrow I am going to ground the wire and check where the rieing plugs into the steering wheel.

Yellowstatue

The brake lights are activated through the brake light switch, which is located alongside the steering column and follow the brake pedal arm upwards and you will see it...it is adjustable and you pull back on the brake arm while pushing the switch in its socket...then push the pedal forward and the brake lights should come on...all the tail lights should light up as brake lights when activated...

dennisspeaks

Yes I know, I changed out the brake light switch, it had no effect unfortunately.

Junkman

From this information, I am positive that it is a grounding problem that you are dealing with. Try grounding the socket when it is out of the fixture by touching the outer tabs on the socket. Old cars develop grounding problems as a result of rust and corrosion. Only way to reestablish a good ground is to remove, clean, and reinstall the parts that are associated with the path to ground. This might mean removing the bumper if the lights are installed in the bumper, cleaning both sides of the mounting hardware, and then re-bolting it all together. Also check the ground strap from the firewall to the frame at both sides of the lower cowl near the cowl mounting bushings. These are usually small copper woven flat straps with a sheet metal screw holding them to both the cowl and the frame. Sometimes they break, are removed, or just loose the contact surface. Most GM cars ground the body to the frame using these straps. I don't know your model specifically, so my advise is based on general knowledge of how GM built all their cars. Most times, there is a negative battery cable from the battery to the engine block, and a smaller cable from the negative terminal going to the body. Basically, the body is isolated from the frame electrically, except for these strategically place grounding straps. This is why many times people will have problems with fuel sending units not working properly. Also, starting in the 1960's, GM started using a lot of plastic in the dash and that required additional grounding for the dash gages. You can sometimes resolve these grounds problems by installing additional made up ground wires from the devices to the body, if you don't care about originality. If originality is important, then the only other way is to find and repair the original grounding paths.

dennisspeaks

UPDATE:

Went to Rileys this evening and bought a dorman light socket. Popped that baby in and now I have turn signals on both left and right rear, left front and brake lights too. Whoopee! Going back tomorrow and buy another one and change the one of the left side because it seems a bit slow.

BosMobile

Sorry,i did'nt reply,have computer problems last couple days .Really glad you got it fixed,without a major dent in the old billfold!Persistance pays off again.Later,BO

dennisspeaks

thanks everyone for your help, lights are working except front turn signal, that will be a project for the winter, bad news is now it won't start, almost beginning to wonder if I am not supposed to drive this car before winter hits.

dennisspeaks

Car is running again, just had to clean the posts on the Junction Box.