Oldssupreme

Hi! Can anyone point me to a good thread for properly installing an original starter on a 72 supreme with a 350? Better get this in before I reinstall the exhaust and torque down all the chassis and suspension bolts. Thanks!
Chris

Allan R

Chris,
I supported the starter with a 4x6 block of wood that was just the right height standing on end. That allowed me both hands to reach up and connect the starter leads. The wire on the right is so close to the exhaust (even with heat tape on it) it can get burned. The routing for this wire isn't to the side -as it looks in this picture, it's almost vertically down so it misses the exhaust by about 3/4". These leads use 11/32" nuts and the main one is 9/16".


The starter installed very easily. Doesn't take much effort to hold the unit up and get one of the bolts threaded. Then just switch over to the other side and thread it. After the starter bolts are snugged down, install the starter brace. It uses a 1/2" nut/washer at the starter end, and a 9/16" bolt where it attaches to the block. Make sure the wiring harness runs properly between the solenoid and starter. Do NOT pinch the harness with the starter brace or you'll have trouble. Now install the flywheel inspection cover (4x 1/2" bolts) and you're done with this baby.

Fun71

One key thing to remember is disconnect the positive cable at the battery before starting this job.


I have always used a hydraulic jack to lift the starter up and hold it in place while I insert the bolts. Much easier than trying to hold the starter up in place with one hand while you manipulate the bolts with the other.

Oldssupreme

Allan and Ken, thank you both so much! The pics are much appreciated. One other question- the assembly manual shows a shim to be installed. I can't find one in the box where i put the starter when i removed it, and i dont even remember seeing something that looked like it when i removed the starter. Thoughts?
Chris

oldcutlass

The shim/s are only necessary if the tooth mesh alignment needs adjusting. Yours is probably good.

Fun71

I have not needed a shim in 37 years of wrenching on my Cutlasses.

joe_padavano

X2 (but it's been 42 years for me... )

Oldssupreme

Ok! Thanks!

Allan R

When I took my starter out it didn't have a shim. Put it back and mesh was perfect.

Oldssupreme

Ok. So by mesh you mean the starter and flywheel teeth meshing together? If so how do I know I have a good mesh? Can I actually see the teeth together or should I feel for it?

oldcutlass

If you did not have issues with your original starter before you should not have any now.

Allan R

Chris, you won't be able to feel it just by touch. The bendix has to throw to engage and you don't want your fingers there when it does.

If you didn't take out a shim when you removed the starter, it won't need one going back in.

Toms cutlass

Consider using a simple starter solenoid heat shield to prevent /reduce the chances of solenoid heat soak. Very easy and inexpensive to add.

Oldssupreme

OK. This may be another silly question, but the brace, that straddles the solenoid and the starter, where does it attach on the bottom of the starter? I obviously see were it attaches on the top but I don't see what is shown in the assembly manual, as the bottom of that metal strap is supposed to attach somewhere on the bottom/side of the starter.

Toms cutlass

My 350 doesn't have a starter strap. There's no threaded hole in the starter for a bolt to attach the starter strap.

Oldssupreme

Hmmmm. Maybe I took this from a parts car? I should look at the photos I took before I dismantled the engine. So you're saying that not all engines have the starter strap that they show in the assembly manual and that it's not necessary? So then it's only the two long bolts in the rear of the starter that attach it to the block? All of the parts cars that I have taken from were 350s. One was a 70 and the other was a 71. Thoughts?

Toms cutlass

I rebuilt my starter and replaced the solenoid just last year on my 1970 350 c.i. There was no lateral brace. (Also no shims.) It's installed only with the 2 long starter bolts. I was prepared to buy and install a starter brace until I discovered there was no hole in the starter case for a bolt. Like you, I examined the Assembly Manual and saw a starter brace, but my vehicle (I'm 2nd owner) never had a brace, and even if I wanted to install one, I can't.

Does the page of the Assembly Manual show an update in the lower corner where a brace may have been added in later production?

don71

It is my understanding that Oldsmobile used the grounding/support strap on its starters originaly, for a reason. This strap was often removed or not reused when these cars had their first starter replaced. For what ever reason...just gone and thrown away.

Not all Gm starters had this provision, for the hole to screw into. Now Fast Forward.

Forty some odd years later, these starters available to users now have been in the used part rebuilders circle for some time. Most starters now available (to olds owners) don't have this threaded hole in the case or body as a by product of using what ever gm starter parts to cover a given cross section or multitude of applications.

Originally it was there, nowadays probably not. If you've got it you should use it. Most get by without.

Our late member Chris Witt..akaOctania was an advocate of always using the strap when possible. I still believe there is a reason for it, I mean Oldsmobile engineers made it a point to use it.

Shims...I've never come across an oldsmobile that needed a starter shim.

Toms cutlass

Thanks for schooling us on the history, don.

I recall repair shops discarding the brace. I have the OE starter, and the case doesn't have a mounting hole for the brace. I wish it did. However, it's never been an issue in my 40 years of ownership.

Allan R

My starter was OEM. IIRC I did remove a brace when it took it out for clean and rebuild. I think I have some archive pics somewhere that shows it. Have to check. If not I'll have to crawl under and see if I can get a picture, because what I took out, I put back. Only cleaner and better.

Toms cutlass

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...r-bracket.html

Oldssupreme

Thank you all incredibly much!

Allan R

Note the bolt on the middle - it's for attaching the starter brace.



Rebuilt starter. That's the brace at the top of the picture



Mounted and engaged with flywheel. No problem, no shim either.



OEM starter part and manufacture date

Oldssupreme

Allan, thank you so much!!!

Toms cutlass

When the starter was rebuilt, could the starter case be re-installed 180 degrees reverse so that the bolt hole on the case for the brace is opposite (on the inside nearest the engine block) rather than facing out?

oldcutlass

No, it can only go together 1 way.

Allan R

^^^ this.

Oldssupreme

And how many wires should be attached? I see two in the photos above but there are two other posts on the started solenoid if I remember.

Allan R

Chris,
The picture in permalink 2 is correct for wire hookup. If you're in doubt check page 12-62 in the 72 CSM.

here's a picture showing the 3 connection terminals on the solenoid



Here's the before picture showing the connections after I dropped the starter. It was hanging by the positive cable.



Does this help you?

stellar

Olds and Pontiac used the same starter drive end. The aluminium piece that bolts to the block. Olds didn't need shims, but the pontiac did. Olds had the hole in the case for the brace but Pontiac didn't. If the brace isn't used then the Olds and Pontiac starters are interchangeable.

Oldssupreme

You guys are fantastic! I truly appreciate all of your help!
Chris

Allan R

How do you decode the date code on solenoid for the starter? Mine is 8E3, over 1114458.

mrolds69

I assume they are the same as starters...8 is the year 1968 (or 78), E is the month (May), 3 is the day (3rd). The tricky thing about most date codes is like the months...there was no I, so it couldn't be confused with a 1. The 12 letters for the months skip the letter I.

Allan R

My starter code is 2C 1 8 ( see pics above) but I doubt the starter and solenoid for a 72 would be held that long in inventory.

mrolds69

Your starter is 1972 March. Starters were maybe a few weeks to a few days before the car assembly. You said your starter was rebuilt. Rebuilt starters are like rebuilt carbs or distributors. They rarely get the exact same parts when reassembled. Maybe the original solenoid was bad. I agree it's way old for your car. But...unless you tell me you bought the car new and the starter or solenoid were never changed....it is what it is. Ok...I just looked at the pics you posted. If that's your solenoid in the pics, it's absolutely a rebuilt solenoid. You can tell by the plastic endcap on it. The color is wrong, the texture is wrong, and I'm pretty sure originals said Delco or Delco-Remy. Fortunately, I haven't had to mess with a starter in a while, but that's my memory. Stellar will know, or one of the other number or NOS guys here.

Allan R

I should clarify - the starter was rebuilt by me after I took it out of the car. The reason the end cap on the solenoid looks like that is it went through a bead blast. (I know - a mistake. It took a lot to clean up from that, and was very deliberate to get the inside parts completely clean again) It is the original starter and solenoid to the car. My Dad bought this car when it was 2 years old, so I can't say it was bought new, but it also had very low mileage and highly unlikely that the starter had been replaced. The endcap is phenolic compound, as originals should be.

Oldssupreme

Can anyone verify the color of each of the wires that attaches to the starter? And are they all ring contacts that attach? I'm trying to identify the mess of wires that I disconnected. Thanks! Chris.

Oldssupreme

Maybe a better question would be: can anyone post a picture of the harness that has all the wires that attached to the solenoid. I found the colors. should be red purple and yellow I believe.

mrolds69

Sorry, got sidetracked there! Purple to S term, yellow to R, red can only fit on the big term. There's a really nice pic in the assembly manuals showing the starter wiring, and the position of the eyelets. The 2 small wires had eyelets with shrink wrapped rubber covering them. The position is important because they can short out. The large bat wire had a special terminal bent a certain way with a tab to get it right.

Oldssupreme

Thanks mrolds69. What page is that in the assembly manual? I can't find it lol! Doesn't help that my manual is scattered all over the garage lol. Thanks!.