Buzzzzzzing radio
Thread Starter
Tony
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 450
From: wisconsin
Buzzzzzzing radio
Hey I have a AM/FM tapedeck craig stereo and a 45 4 ch alpine amp and my radio buzzes when the car is running (66 cutlass) I sounds like the alternator it changes with the rpm of the motor. I t is a later internal alt car has all new grounds and then some MSD streetfire with blaster coil and no other electronics. If I turn it up it will drown d it out. Any body got any ideas? I have heard the condenser on the coil does not work with MSD
Registered User
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 494
From: Dallas, Texas
You need a noise filter or noise suppressor. There are a lot of different designs and prices so shop around. Easy to install. IMHO older Craig radios are fairly low quality(on par with Sparkomatic or Kraco) and may be contributing to your problem.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...ance/1272491-3
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...ance/1272491-3
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,798
From: Plano, TX
Verify you have VERY solid ground points at the amp to body, body to frame, radio to body, frame to engine block, body and frame and engine to battery.
Make sure the connections are true, too, like no paint between a wire to steel.
Make sure the connections are true, too, like no paint between a wire to steel.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 611
From: Chelmsford, Mass
There aredifferent types of engine electrical noise.
If it’s a Whining sound, like a dentist drill, then that is being caused by the alternator. As you rev the engine, the whining will change frequency (Low to High). The good news is that alternator whine is one of the easiest to fix.
The other commonnoise is popping sounds from the spark plugs. The popping will also change to more frequent pops when you rev the engine. Popping spark plug noise is the hardest to eliminate.
The suggestions offered so far are all good suggestions.
Grounding:
Battery to Engine (thick gauge 0-8 gauge)
Engine to Body (Usually braid or thick gauge 4-8)
It’s ok torun a few extra ground wires from Engine to different body areas. As an Amateur Radio operator we often willadd ground wires between other moving parts such as Doors, Trunk, Hood and from Exhaust to Frame (optional).
I actually can communicate through low earth orbiting satellites while driving in my 71 Supreme. The FM 2-way Radio in my car(hidden under the seat) is the same exact radio on board the International Space Station.
Alternator Whine filters:
These filters are usually just full of Capacitors. The capacitors will do a good job convertingthe AC-Voltage Noise (The whining) into steadier DC voltages.
Before you buy a filter, you will need to know the AMP rating of your Radio and Amplifier. Let’s assume your total current is 10 amps at 12 volts. I would recommend you buy an Alternatorfilter for at least 20 AMPs. You must also install a new Fuse, between the Filter and the Battery. If the filter fails, and you do not have a fuse, you can lose your car. I almost lost my Jeep Cherokee when a “Just installed” filter fried a few hours after a temporary installation.
Look at the picture on the link provided by “texxas”. It’s a good diagram, except one fatal flaw. It does not show the 12 volt positive fuse holder on the left side of the filter “TO BATTERY”. You need a fuse holder on Both Sizes. On the Battery side, use a fuse value that matches the rating of the filter (assume a 20 filter, then use a 20 or 25 amp fuse). On the Radio side of the filter, use a fuse rating recommended by your radio manufacturer
Direct connection to Battery:
The car battery is actually just a big capacitor. For most high current installation or noisy ignitionsystems, most radio geeks will design their radio system to use the battery directly and will not use the cars fuse box. The only down side is that the devices will still get power when the keys are OFF. However the benefits are, you will get themost power possible at the highest voltages and the noise on the wires will be lower than any other source.
archeryshooter:
For your specific installation with an external 45 watt x 4 amplifier, I will assume the amp needs 25+ amps. Your FM radio will need 4-8 Amps. Total current 30-40 amps. Based on these guesses, you will defiantly need to run your 8 gauge wires directly to the battery (I hope you have a 100 amp alternator).
You will need 2 alternator filters. One for the amplifier and one for theRadio. To avoid ground loop conditions, the FM radio and the amplifier must get their power from the same location. You cannot have the radio get its power fromthe car’s fuse panel and the amplifier from the battery.
Good luck
Miles WF1F
Here is a link about engine nose.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ea41zcePgI2/learn/learningcenter/car/noise.html
Here is a link with alternator noise filters. Note: I do not endorse any specific product.
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Pyramid-Car-Audio-NS50-35-Amp-In-Line-Noise-Suppressor-NS50
If it’s a Whining sound, like a dentist drill, then that is being caused by the alternator. As you rev the engine, the whining will change frequency (Low to High). The good news is that alternator whine is one of the easiest to fix.
The other commonnoise is popping sounds from the spark plugs. The popping will also change to more frequent pops when you rev the engine. Popping spark plug noise is the hardest to eliminate.
The suggestions offered so far are all good suggestions.
Grounding:
Battery to Engine (thick gauge 0-8 gauge)
Engine to Body (Usually braid or thick gauge 4-8)
It’s ok torun a few extra ground wires from Engine to different body areas. As an Amateur Radio operator we often willadd ground wires between other moving parts such as Doors, Trunk, Hood and from Exhaust to Frame (optional).
I actually can communicate through low earth orbiting satellites while driving in my 71 Supreme. The FM 2-way Radio in my car(hidden under the seat) is the same exact radio on board the International Space Station.
Alternator Whine filters:
These filters are usually just full of Capacitors. The capacitors will do a good job convertingthe AC-Voltage Noise (The whining) into steadier DC voltages.
Before you buy a filter, you will need to know the AMP rating of your Radio and Amplifier. Let’s assume your total current is 10 amps at 12 volts. I would recommend you buy an Alternatorfilter for at least 20 AMPs. You must also install a new Fuse, between the Filter and the Battery. If the filter fails, and you do not have a fuse, you can lose your car. I almost lost my Jeep Cherokee when a “Just installed” filter fried a few hours after a temporary installation.
Look at the picture on the link provided by “texxas”. It’s a good diagram, except one fatal flaw. It does not show the 12 volt positive fuse holder on the left side of the filter “TO BATTERY”. You need a fuse holder on Both Sizes. On the Battery side, use a fuse value that matches the rating of the filter (assume a 20 filter, then use a 20 or 25 amp fuse). On the Radio side of the filter, use a fuse rating recommended by your radio manufacturer
Direct connection to Battery:
The car battery is actually just a big capacitor. For most high current installation or noisy ignitionsystems, most radio geeks will design their radio system to use the battery directly and will not use the cars fuse box. The only down side is that the devices will still get power when the keys are OFF. However the benefits are, you will get themost power possible at the highest voltages and the noise on the wires will be lower than any other source.
archeryshooter:
For your specific installation with an external 45 watt x 4 amplifier, I will assume the amp needs 25+ amps. Your FM radio will need 4-8 Amps. Total current 30-40 amps. Based on these guesses, you will defiantly need to run your 8 gauge wires directly to the battery (I hope you have a 100 amp alternator).
You will need 2 alternator filters. One for the amplifier and one for theRadio. To avoid ground loop conditions, the FM radio and the amplifier must get their power from the same location. You cannot have the radio get its power fromthe car’s fuse panel and the amplifier from the battery.
Good luck
Miles WF1F
Here is a link about engine nose.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ea41zcePgI2/learn/learningcenter/car/noise.html
Here is a link with alternator noise filters. Note: I do not endorse any specific product.
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Pyramid-Car-Audio-NS50-35-Amp-In-Line-Noise-Suppressor-NS50
Last edited by Miles71; May 2, 2013 at 10:38 AM. Reason: copy paste formatting
Thread Starter
Tony
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 450
From: wisconsin
There aredifferent types of engine electrical noise.
If it’s a Whining sound, like a dentist drill, then that is being caused by the alternator. As you rev the engine, the whining will change frequency (Low to High). The good news is that alternator whine is one of the easiest to fix.
The other commonnoise is popping sounds from the spark plugs. The popping will also change to more frequent pops when you rev the engine. Popping spark plug noise is the hardest to eliminate.
The suggestions offered so far are all good suggestions.
Grounding:
Battery to Engine (thick gauge 0-8 gauge)
Engine to Body (Usually braid or thick gauge 4-8)
It’s ok torun a few extra ground wires from Engine to different body areas. As an Amateur Radio operator we often willadd ground wires between other moving parts such as Doors, Trunk, Hood and from Exhaust to Frame (optional).
I actually can communicate through low earth orbiting satellites while driving in my 71 Supreme. The FM 2-way Radio in my car(hidden under the seat) is the same exact radio on board the International Space Station.
Alternator Whine filters:
These filters are usually just full of Capacitors. The capacitors will do a good job convertingthe AC-Voltage Noise (The whining) into steadier DC voltages.
Before you buy a filter, you will need to know the AMP rating of your Radio and Amplifier. Let’s assume your total current is 10 amps at 12 volts. I would recommend you buy an Alternatorfilter for at least 20 AMPs. You must also install a new Fuse, between the Filter and the Battery. If the filter fails, and you do not have a fuse, you can lose your car. I almost lost my Jeep Cherokee when a “Just installed” filter fried a few hours after a temporary installation.
Look at the picture on the link provided by “texxas”. It’s a good diagram, except one fatal flaw. It does not show the 12 volt positive fuse holder on the left side of the filter “TO BATTERY”. You need a fuse holder on Both Sizes. On the Battery side, use a fuse value that matches the rating of the filter (assume a 20 filter, then use a 20 or 25 amp fuse). On the Radio side of the filter, use a fuse rating recommended by your radio manufacturer
Direct connection to Battery:
The car battery is actually just a big capacitor. For most high current installation or noisy ignitionsystems, most radio geeks will design their radio system to use the battery directly and will not use the cars fuse box. The only down side is that the devices will still get power when the keys are OFF. However the benefits are, you will get themost power possible at the highest voltages and the noise on the wires will be lower than any other source.
archeryshooter:
For your specific installation with an external 45 watt x 4 amplifier, I will assume the amp needs 25+ amps. Your FM radio will need 4-8 Amps. Total current 30-40 amps. Based on these guesses, you will defiantly need to run your 8 gauge wires directly to the battery (I hope you have a 100 amp alternator).
You will need 2 alternator filters. One for the amplifier and one for theRadio. To avoid ground loop conditions, the FM radio and the amplifier must get their power from the same location. You cannot have the radio get its power fromthe car’s fuse panel and the amplifier from the battery.
Good luck
Miles WF1F
Here is a link about engine nose.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ea41zcePgI2/learn/learningcenter/car/noise.html
Here is a link with alternator noise filters. Note: I do not endorse any specific product.
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Pyramid-Car-Audio-NS50-35-Amp-In-Line-Noise-Suppressor-NS50
If it’s a Whining sound, like a dentist drill, then that is being caused by the alternator. As you rev the engine, the whining will change frequency (Low to High). The good news is that alternator whine is one of the easiest to fix.
The other commonnoise is popping sounds from the spark plugs. The popping will also change to more frequent pops when you rev the engine. Popping spark plug noise is the hardest to eliminate.
The suggestions offered so far are all good suggestions.
Grounding:
Battery to Engine (thick gauge 0-8 gauge)
Engine to Body (Usually braid or thick gauge 4-8)
It’s ok torun a few extra ground wires from Engine to different body areas. As an Amateur Radio operator we often willadd ground wires between other moving parts such as Doors, Trunk, Hood and from Exhaust to Frame (optional).
I actually can communicate through low earth orbiting satellites while driving in my 71 Supreme. The FM 2-way Radio in my car(hidden under the seat) is the same exact radio on board the International Space Station.
Alternator Whine filters:
These filters are usually just full of Capacitors. The capacitors will do a good job convertingthe AC-Voltage Noise (The whining) into steadier DC voltages.
Before you buy a filter, you will need to know the AMP rating of your Radio and Amplifier. Let’s assume your total current is 10 amps at 12 volts. I would recommend you buy an Alternatorfilter for at least 20 AMPs. You must also install a new Fuse, between the Filter and the Battery. If the filter fails, and you do not have a fuse, you can lose your car. I almost lost my Jeep Cherokee when a “Just installed” filter fried a few hours after a temporary installation.
Look at the picture on the link provided by “texxas”. It’s a good diagram, except one fatal flaw. It does not show the 12 volt positive fuse holder on the left side of the filter “TO BATTERY”. You need a fuse holder on Both Sizes. On the Battery side, use a fuse value that matches the rating of the filter (assume a 20 filter, then use a 20 or 25 amp fuse). On the Radio side of the filter, use a fuse rating recommended by your radio manufacturer
Direct connection to Battery:
The car battery is actually just a big capacitor. For most high current installation or noisy ignitionsystems, most radio geeks will design their radio system to use the battery directly and will not use the cars fuse box. The only down side is that the devices will still get power when the keys are OFF. However the benefits are, you will get themost power possible at the highest voltages and the noise on the wires will be lower than any other source.
archeryshooter:
For your specific installation with an external 45 watt x 4 amplifier, I will assume the amp needs 25+ amps. Your FM radio will need 4-8 Amps. Total current 30-40 amps. Based on these guesses, you will defiantly need to run your 8 gauge wires directly to the battery (I hope you have a 100 amp alternator).
You will need 2 alternator filters. One for the amplifier and one for theRadio. To avoid ground loop conditions, the FM radio and the amplifier must get their power from the same location. You cannot have the radio get its power fromthe car’s fuse panel and the amplifier from the battery.
Good luck
Miles WF1F
Here is a link about engine nose.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-ea41zcePgI2/learn/learningcenter/car/noise.html
Here is a link with alternator noise filters. Note: I do not endorse any specific product.
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Pyramid-Car-Audio-NS50-35-Amp-In-Line-Noise-Suppressor-NS50
same but different
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,963
From: Central Missouri
Tony, I read you have a msd streetfire system. From looking that up, thats basically an HEI with a coil in the cap. Coil part number 5526. Is that right? If this is true, this is a lot like a problem I had with a Mallory unit, basically the same.
The distributor has a cap that covers the coil, just like an HEI, held by four screws. Make sure that one of those screws goes throught the eyelet from the coil wire, and its tight.
I exerienced a similar problem, and it was nothing more than a loose screw.
The guys here have given you good advice, and I'm hoping you don't have to throw any money at the problem by checking this first. Let us know how this turns out.
The distributor has a cap that covers the coil, just like an HEI, held by four screws. Make sure that one of those screws goes throught the eyelet from the coil wire, and its tight.
I exerienced a similar problem, and it was nothing more than a loose screw.
The guys here have given you good advice, and I'm hoping you don't have to throw any money at the problem by checking this first. Let us know how this turns out.
Thread Starter
Tony
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 450
From: wisconsin
Thanks Don but I have a pro billit dist with a blaster external coil I think I might just run it direct to the batt I will just have to remember to shut it off I will keep you all posted on how it works
Thread Starter
Tony
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 450
From: wisconsin
Well I hooked the ground up direct to the batt it helped some then I tryed the pos direct to the batt and it helped a little more but still some at low volume the I tryed it to the fuse block tabs and it stayed about the same so Im leaving it there for now at least I can here the music over the buzzing. Im going to look up a filter and maybe that will finish it off. Now what filter should I try?
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 611
From: Chelmsford, Mass
ArcheryShooter: Which configuration had the most noise?
From yourdescription, is sounds like you have two boxes, one Radio and one externalamplifier, is that correct?
When theamplifier is OFF, can you still listen to music and is there More or lessbuzzing?
As for thebest filter, you will half to do some research. When you have narrowed it down to 2 or 3 PM me and send me the links fora second opinion. The More capacitorsthe better, transistors and coils may help too. A 4-wire system may work better than a 3 wire system, 2 Unfilteredpower-in and two filtered power-outs, thus avoiding a common ground (notcritical). Size matters a bit, thebigger the better, about the size of a pack of cigarettes or bigger. Check your local high performance car Stereo storesand web sites.
Power ratingis important, Find the Amps required for your FM-Radio and get a filter for approximatelytwice the Amp rating. Put the firstfilter on the Radio and test the system. Since your amplifier uses much more power, it will be harder to find afilter for the amplifier so skip the amplifier at this time. Do not run both through 1 filter, because thefilter will melt.
I tried tolook up Craig Stereo to check on manufacturer and stuff. Not sure if they still exist? Name brand Japanese car stereos are typicallydesigned to suppress some of the common car noise issues. You may want to consider a newer radio or ifnot interested in nostalgic look a JVC HD-FM digital with built in HD and 4speaker amplifier for under $200.
Since my caris all original, I am searching the fleas for a factory FM Radio.
Good luck.
Thread Starter
Tony
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 450
From: wisconsin
ArcheryShooter: Which configuration had the most noise?
From yourdescription, is sounds like you have two boxes, one Radio and one externalamplifier, is that correct?
When theamplifier is OFF, can you still listen to music and is there More or lessbuzzing?
As for thebest filter, you will half to do some research. When you have narrowed it down to 2 or 3 PM me and send me the links fora second opinion. The More capacitorsthe better, transistors and coils may help too. A 4-wire system may work better than a 3 wire system, 2 Unfilteredpower-in and two filtered power-outs, thus avoiding a common ground (notcritical). Size matters a bit, thebigger the better, about the size of a pack of cigarettes or bigger. Check your local high performance car Stereo storesand web sites.
Power ratingis important, Find the Amps required for your FM-Radio and get a filter for approximatelytwice the Amp rating. Put the firstfilter on the Radio and test the system. Since your amplifier uses much more power, it will be harder to find afilter for the amplifier so skip the amplifier at this time. Do not run both through 1 filter, because thefilter will melt.
I tried tolook up Craig Stereo to check on manufacturer and stuff. Not sure if they still exist? Name brand Japanese car stereos are typicallydesigned to suppress some of the common car noise issues. You may want to consider a newer radio or ifnot interested in nostalgic look a JVC HD-FM digital with built in HD and 4speaker amplifier for under $200.
Since my caris all original, I am searching the fleas for a factory FM Radio.
Good luck.
From yourdescription, is sounds like you have two boxes, one Radio and one externalamplifier, is that correct?
When theamplifier is OFF, can you still listen to music and is there More or lessbuzzing?
As for thebest filter, you will half to do some research. When you have narrowed it down to 2 or 3 PM me and send me the links fora second opinion. The More capacitorsthe better, transistors and coils may help too. A 4-wire system may work better than a 3 wire system, 2 Unfilteredpower-in and two filtered power-outs, thus avoiding a common ground (notcritical). Size matters a bit, thebigger the better, about the size of a pack of cigarettes or bigger. Check your local high performance car Stereo storesand web sites.
Power ratingis important, Find the Amps required for your FM-Radio and get a filter for approximatelytwice the Amp rating. Put the firstfilter on the Radio and test the system. Since your amplifier uses much more power, it will be harder to find afilter for the amplifier so skip the amplifier at this time. Do not run both through 1 filter, because thefilter will melt.
I tried tolook up Craig Stereo to check on manufacturer and stuff. Not sure if they still exist? Name brand Japanese car stereos are typicallydesigned to suppress some of the common car noise issues. You may want to consider a newer radio or ifnot interested in nostalgic look a JVC HD-FM digital with built in HD and 4speaker amplifier for under $200.
Since my caris all original, I am searching the fleas for a factory FM Radio.
Good luck.
It had noise before I hooked up the alpine 4 channel 45 watt amp the amp just made it louder the Criag is not top of the line for sure I went with it because my dash has not been cut up its not as bad now for all the trouble I may just see what I can find out there as far as a stock FM Ron Roth may have one for you hes here on classicolds I will PM you his ph #
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 611
From: Chelmsford, Mass
Ok, I understand.The existing radio fits the existing holes and you do not want to make any morevisible holes.
Here is alink for a filter at Best Buy. They donot give any good details but the price looks good, less than 5 bucks and it ratedfor 12 amps. It would be a good startingplace for the Radio Only. Make sure boththe Blue and Red wires each have its own Fuse. Good filters can go up to 60 bucks.
Otherchecks. Put a Digital volt meter on yourbattery and test the alternator voltage at different RPM values. You should see13.4 – 14.9 DC voltage for a good alternator. Also set the DVM to AC voltage too. You should not see any AC voltage. If you do see some AC, then you may have some bad diodes in thealternator.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Pyramid+-+Noise+Suppressor+-+12Amp/4913867.p?id=1218575783736&skuId=4913867
Here is alink for a filter at Best Buy. They donot give any good details but the price looks good, less than 5 bucks and it ratedfor 12 amps. It would be a good startingplace for the Radio Only. Make sure boththe Blue and Red wires each have its own Fuse. Good filters can go up to 60 bucks.
Otherchecks. Put a Digital volt meter on yourbattery and test the alternator voltage at different RPM values. You should see13.4 – 14.9 DC voltage for a good alternator. Also set the DVM to AC voltage too. You should not see any AC voltage. If you do see some AC, then you may have some bad diodes in thealternator.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Pyramid+-+Noise+Suppressor+-+12Amp/4913867.p?id=1218575783736&skuId=4913867
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