Baffled
August 24th, 2016, 08:19 PM
#1
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Location: Florida
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Baffled
on my son's car (1967 Cutlass sedan we have been building) still having a rear light issue. I have gone thru 3 or 4 of the new replacement all metal sockets (this is a two wire system with prongs or fingers to hold it in the socket) for the tail light/brake light/turn signal on the left side. neither side has worked ever, correctly, with any of the all metal replacement sockets. the oem ones that were in the car were hit and miss, so I tried to replace them. I found some plastic housing sockets that looked more like the oem so I got them and they worked immediately fine until about a week or so ago when they started just popping out. seems from the heat, the plastic prongs lost their tension so I had taped them in until I could find a suitable replacement.
now today, one fell out (right side) put it back in and all is good as long as the tape holds. the left side is back to it's old tricks. only the tail light comes on. neither the signal nor the brake light comes on. there is power coming to that socket, albeit, seems to be weak right now for some reason. I also noticed that the tag light is now out, even though that was a brand new bulb and lens when I put the bumper back on a few weeks ago. have to see if that is on one of the same circuits or not, but I am tired of fooling with this thing tonite in the dark and want to stay away from the Zika mosquitoes out there. tomorrow when he gets home from school, I am mounting a third light I have had to put in the car so at least he will always have that for a brake light should the others fail. right now he just has the right rear with everything working. at least for the left turn signal, the led light on the mirror is still working to signal people behind him. this is driving me nuts. nothing I can see that can be causing this. almost seems like a ground issue, but not sure how. the plastic ones have two metal prongs that contact the sides of the opening and seems to me if one of the lights come on, then the ground should be good for all of them.
now today, one fell out (right side) put it back in and all is good as long as the tape holds. the left side is back to it's old tricks. only the tail light comes on. neither the signal nor the brake light comes on. there is power coming to that socket, albeit, seems to be weak right now for some reason. I also noticed that the tag light is now out, even though that was a brand new bulb and lens when I put the bumper back on a few weeks ago. have to see if that is on one of the same circuits or not, but I am tired of fooling with this thing tonite in the dark and want to stay away from the Zika mosquitoes out there. tomorrow when he gets home from school, I am mounting a third light I have had to put in the car so at least he will always have that for a brake light should the others fail. right now he just has the right rear with everything working. at least for the left turn signal, the led light on the mirror is still working to signal people behind him. this is driving me nuts. nothing I can see that can be causing this. almost seems like a ground issue, but not sure how. the plastic ones have two metal prongs that contact the sides of the opening and seems to me if one of the lights come on, then the ground should be good for all of them.
August 25th, 2016, 07:53 PM
#2
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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switched out the oem bulb socket for the left side with the same result, i.e., lights come on but no brake light and no turn signal. hooked up the third light quickly (spent most of the afternoon mounting it and then he had to go to work, so the electric was a quicky for now) to the right side and voila, the brake light for the 3rd light works, but of course, when you put the turn signal on, the 3rd light becomes a blinker too!!! going to have to run a dedicated wire just to the 3rd light. at least, without using the signals, it has two brake lights again and the 3rd is an led light so is up high (on the package shelf) and bright.
still was leaning toward ground issue, but with the oem socket acting the same, going to have to look at the connections up front again. I did, some time ago, replace the turn signal switch and the new one had an issue with the flasher not releasing so who knows, maybe something in there is goofed up. driving me nuts trying to figure out and my son driving me nuts complaining about it.
still was leaning toward ground issue, but with the oem socket acting the same, going to have to look at the connections up front again. I did, some time ago, replace the turn signal switch and the new one had an issue with the flasher not releasing so who knows, maybe something in there is goofed up. driving me nuts trying to figure out and my son driving me nuts complaining about it.
August 26th, 2016, 07:51 AM
#3
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 1,899
Do you have a 67 wiring diagram? The normal GM tail light wiring is a little crazy, and the turn signal switch in the column does a lot more work than one would expect. You would need to tap a wire at the column to get a 3rd brake light that doesn't flash with the turn.
The ground goes through the light housing, the bumper, chassis to battery. Plenty of points that can have poor connections. So the light socket needs a really good connection to the light housing, which can be difficult.
Flashers do go bad. They cost <$2, so that can be an easy test. The standard cheap flashers require a certain amount of load in order to flash correctly, so poor connections can cause funny issues there, too. The expensive ones for LEDs have internal controls so they'll flash regardless of load.
There's only a few components in the end:
turn signal switch in the column - I've gotten bad ones out of the box, it was a Standard Products part
main wiring harness and fuse box - just need to make sure it's not corroded
front light harness - problems with front harness can cause the rears to not work
rear extension - connector under the driver's seat, hopefully not corroded
At least the later years (certainly '71, '72) have a ground jumper on the rear light harness that attaches to the deck lid latch hook in the trunk.
I know the 71/72 housings are quite different, but I ended up using Napa LS6242 sockets for 1157 bulbs. I made sure it was a bare metal-to-metal contact around the rim, bent over the tabs and epoxied. Also added some heat strink tubing to the wires to try to make a better water seal. Need to make sure the contact base can still move freely. The 67 may have a larger hole for the socket.
The license plate light is wired in with the low tail light circuit, but grounds through the same sequence.
The ground goes through the light housing, the bumper, chassis to battery. Plenty of points that can have poor connections. So the light socket needs a really good connection to the light housing, which can be difficult.
Flashers do go bad. They cost <$2, so that can be an easy test. The standard cheap flashers require a certain amount of load in order to flash correctly, so poor connections can cause funny issues there, too. The expensive ones for LEDs have internal controls so they'll flash regardless of load.
There's only a few components in the end:
turn signal switch in the column - I've gotten bad ones out of the box, it was a Standard Products part
main wiring harness and fuse box - just need to make sure it's not corroded
front light harness - problems with front harness can cause the rears to not work
rear extension - connector under the driver's seat, hopefully not corroded
At least the later years (certainly '71, '72) have a ground jumper on the rear light harness that attaches to the deck lid latch hook in the trunk.
I know the 71/72 housings are quite different, but I ended up using Napa LS6242 sockets for 1157 bulbs. I made sure it was a bare metal-to-metal contact around the rim, bent over the tabs and epoxied. Also added some heat strink tubing to the wires to try to make a better water seal. Need to make sure the contact base can still move freely. The 67 may have a larger hole for the socket.
The license plate light is wired in with the low tail light circuit, but grounds through the same sequence.
August 26th, 2016, 08:13 AM
#4
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Location: Poteau, Ok
Posts: 41,053
[QUOTE=oddball;948281]Do you have a 67 wiring diagram? The normal GM tail light wiring is a little crazy, and the turn signal switch in the column does a lot more work than one would expect. You would need to tap a wire at the column to get a 3rd brake light that doesn't flash with the turn.
The 67 taillight wiring is no different than any others. You can tap after the brake switch for the 3rd light.
The ground goes through the light housing, the bumper, chassis to battery. Plenty of points that can have poor connections. So the light socket needs a really good connection to the light housing, which can be difficult.
Double checking grounds doesn't hurt. Have you put a meter on the contacts to see if you have power to light the filaments at the proper times? If so the contacts may not be contacting the bulb.
Flashers do go bad. They cost
The 67 taillight wiring is no different than any others. You can tap after the brake switch for the 3rd light.
The ground goes through the light housing, the bumper, chassis to battery. Plenty of points that can have poor connections. So the light socket needs a really good connection to the light housing, which can be difficult.
Double checking grounds doesn't hurt. Have you put a meter on the contacts to see if you have power to light the filaments at the proper times? If so the contacts may not be contacting the bulb.
Flashers do go bad. They cost
August 26th, 2016, 08:59 AM
#5
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 719
Zika is also sexually transmitted by men and women, and anyone could already have it, even if they show they have no symptoms and feel fine.
http://time.com/4468285/zika-virus-sex-transmission/
http://time.com/4468285/zika-virus-sex-transmission/
August 26th, 2016, 11:23 AM
#6
Car Whisperer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 260
Do you have a 67 wiring diagram? The normal GM tail light wiring is a little crazy, and the turn signal switch in the column does a lot more work than one would expect. You would need to tap a wire at the column to get a 3rd brake light that doesn't flash with the turn.
The ground goes through the light housing, the bumper, chassis to battery. Plenty of points that can have poor connections. So the light socket needs a really good connection to the light housing, which can be difficult.
Flashers do go bad. They cost <$2, so that can be an easy test. The standard cheap flashers require a certain amount of load in order to flash correctly, so poor connections can cause funny issues there, too. The expensive ones for LEDs have internal controls so they'll flash regardless of load.
There's only a few components in the end:
turn signal switch in the column - I've gotten bad ones out of the box, it was a Standard Products part
main wiring harness and fuse box - just need to make sure it's not corroded
front light harness - problems with front harness can cause the rears to not work
rear extension - connector under the driver's seat, hopefully not corroded
At least the later years (certainly '71, '72) have a ground jumper on the rear light harness that attaches to the deck lid latch hook in the trunk.
I know the 71/72 housings are quite different, but I ended up using Napa LS6242 sockets for 1157 bulbs. I made sure it was a bare metal-to-metal contact around the rim, bent over the tabs and epoxied. Also added some heat strink tubing to the wires to try to make a better water seal. Need to make sure the contact base can still move freely. The 67 may have a larger hole for the socket.
The license plate light is wired in with the low tail light circuit, but grounds through the same sequence.
The ground goes through the light housing, the bumper, chassis to battery. Plenty of points that can have poor connections. So the light socket needs a really good connection to the light housing, which can be difficult.
Flashers do go bad. They cost <$2, so that can be an easy test. The standard cheap flashers require a certain amount of load in order to flash correctly, so poor connections can cause funny issues there, too. The expensive ones for LEDs have internal controls so they'll flash regardless of load.
There's only a few components in the end:
turn signal switch in the column - I've gotten bad ones out of the box, it was a Standard Products part
main wiring harness and fuse box - just need to make sure it's not corroded
front light harness - problems with front harness can cause the rears to not work
rear extension - connector under the driver's seat, hopefully not corroded
At least the later years (certainly '71, '72) have a ground jumper on the rear light harness that attaches to the deck lid latch hook in the trunk.
I know the 71/72 housings are quite different, but I ended up using Napa LS6242 sockets for 1157 bulbs. I made sure it was a bare metal-to-metal contact around the rim, bent over the tabs and epoxied. Also added some heat strink tubing to the wires to try to make a better water seal. Need to make sure the contact base can still move freely. The 67 may have a larger hole for the socket.
The license plate light is wired in with the low tail light circuit, but grounds through the same sequence.
[QUOTE=oldcutlass;948283]
Do you have a 67 wiring diagram? The normal GM tail light wiring is a little crazy, and the turn signal switch in the column does a lot more work than one would expect. You would need to tap a wire at the column to get a 3rd brake light that doesn't flash with the turn.
The 67 taillight wiring is no different than any others. You can tap after the brake switch for the 3rd light.
The ground goes through the light housing, the bumper, chassis to battery. Plenty of points that can have poor connections. So the light socket needs a really good connection to the light housing, which can be difficult.
Double checking grounds doesn't hurt. Have you put a meter on the contacts to see if you have power to light the filaments at the proper times? If so the contacts may not be contacting the bulb.
Flashers do go bad. They cost
The 67 taillight wiring is no different than any others. You can tap after the brake switch for the 3rd light.
The ground goes through the light housing, the bumper, chassis to battery. Plenty of points that can have poor connections. So the light socket needs a really good connection to the light housing, which can be difficult.
Double checking grounds doesn't hurt. Have you put a meter on the contacts to see if you have power to light the filaments at the proper times? If so the contacts may not be contacting the bulb.
Flashers do go bad. They cost
Zika is also sexually transmitted by men and women, and anyone could already have it, even if they show they have no symptoms and feel fine.
http://time.com/4468285/zika-virus-sex-transmission/
http://time.com/4468285/zika-virus-sex-transmission/
August 29th, 2016, 08:28 AM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Plano, TX
Posts: 1,899
Yup, turn/brake are the bright section of the bulb (one filament) while the normal tail light is the dimmer section of the bulb (second filament), and they are wired separately. Each pin on the base goes to a different filament and the case is used as the ground.
If the dim works but the bright doesn't then the grounds should be OK and it's back to the wiring for the bright - which is side-specific while the dim section ties to both - or, of course, the bulb.
If the dim works but the bright doesn't then the grounds should be OK and it's back to the wiring for the bright - which is side-specific while the dim section ties to both - or, of course, the bulb.
August 29th, 2016, 08:42 AM
#8
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 260
Thanx!! so it is what I thought as far as the wiring is concerned. now the question is why the bright one is not working. guess I will start by checking the wiring in the trunk first where it plugs in and see what that shows me. the right side still works as long as the bulb socket stays in a certain place, but it moves due to vibration in the car since the plastic fingers are weak even though the socket assembly is only a couple of months old. frustrating.
got the third light wired up yesterday before the rain started. so it works directly off of the brake light switch now.
other frustrating.....the mirror button we installed for a later mirror keeps falling off. three permatex kits, all different ones, failed; gorilla glue failed; professional grade glue by a windshield installer failed. I am about to go back to the stalk type of mirror. two sided gorilla clear tape has it up right now. driving me nuts.
got the third light wired up yesterday before the rain started. so it works directly off of the brake light switch now.
other frustrating.....the mirror button we installed for a later mirror keeps falling off. three permatex kits, all different ones, failed; gorilla glue failed; professional grade glue by a windshield installer failed. I am about to go back to the stalk type of mirror. two sided gorilla clear tape has it up right now. driving me nuts.
