So a weird one. Had a local known mechanic (if you want to call him that) over to help out on a few projects. Lets say it was an overall fail. Anyways, He put on a new starter. Started up and worked great but 24 hours later the battery was dead or not connecting. Not calling him back out to fix the issue because TBH he sucked. Started trouble-shooting yesterday and 2 things happened. 1 the car tried to start on its own with me out of the car and keys in my hand.... Second, we noticed there is a loose green wire from the wire harness that leads to the starter. It is only long enough to reach the starter, nothing else. There is also an unused screw/bolt on the starter that looks like it could be for a wire. Before I electrocute myself or blow up a batttery.starter, is it that simple, Would that cause a self start? Is tat where the green wire goes? I do not see a green wire ont he wiring diagram I have.

 

Well ****. I followed the otehr directions and attached the green wire to the S Terminal and that did not chagne anything. Battery acts dead (I am going to test it), it tried to start on me again when I touched the positive batter cable, and both + and - battery cables were pretty warm.

Gonne test battery and then I guess pull the whole starter unit and go from there. Damn. Thought I had it.

 

The only way the starter can engage is 12v somehow gets to the S terminal. You have a lot of wiring down at the starter that does not belong there. Should only have a purple to the S terminal an a yellow to the R terminal, battery voltage to the big lug.

 

So do you know what the other wires are for? I am confused as well. Accesories or something?

I thibnk the purple wire is in place (I just need to pull the green wire back) but there is no tan orr yellow wire. Only red and the green. I am going back under right now and Ill post more base don what you have said in a few minutes.

 

So coming out of the wire harness are 1 larger red wires, 2 smaller red wires, a green wire, and a purple. Right now, the purple and blue are hooked up to the S, 2 smaller red are hooked up to the R, and 2 larger reds are hooked up to the center pole of the solenoid. It looks like the starter itself also has a place for a wire to attach but there is nothing attached there (should one of the larger red wires go there)

It is possible that one of the red ones isnt part of the harness but is meant to go from starter to solenoid? And is the green wrie the one to use instead of the yellow? because I saw online that if there is a green wire it should go to the S terminal.

 

Someone has modified your wiring, you need to see where they go.

 

time to start chasing wires

 

Mickie, I'm not sure if you need a guide to get started. But in case that would help...

At the top left of Nick's wiring diagram is the starter. Only two wires and one cable connect to the starter solenoid.

The purple wire goes to the S terminal. The purple begins at the key switch, goes through the switch at the base of the steering column, through a firewall-mounted connector into the engine compartment, and then to the starter. It's hot only when the key is in the start position.

The yellow wire goes between the R terminal and the positive terminal of the ignition coil. The R terminal is hot only when the starter is cranking the engine.

A full-size cable from the battery positive goes to the large lug at the top of the solenoid. It's always hot.

It looks like someone used the large lug as a voltage source. The voltage source for those two large red wires (depending on where they go) is usually the horn relay positive terminal.

There's apparently a wire connected to the terminal at the bottom of the solenoid that feeds the starter. I have never seen anything connected there. The R terminal is electrically equivalent.

All you need is a cheap multimeter, Nick's diagram, and some patience to sort this out.

Good luck.

 

👀

I have had a car not turn off with keys in hand but never your combo.

What a nightmare !

Sounds like what was known as "hot wiring a car" but unintentionally. Maybe you can use that approach to reverse the issue. And utilize Nicks wiring schematic to back you up.

 

The heavy gauge red wire with the large lug/crimp from the battery goes to the large lug on the starter solenoid.

The purple wire coming from the neutral safety switch goes to the S (farthest from the block) terminal.

The yellow wire goes from the R terminal (closest to the block) up to the positive on the coil.

A blue wire is for an oil pressure sensor.

A green wire is for a temp sensor.

Wires do not connect externally to any part of the starter, only the three mentioned to the solenoid.

I'd first disconnect the battery ground at the battery, then all wires from the starter solenoid and then connect only the red battery cable, the purple wire from the neutral safety switch to the S terminal and lastly the yellow to the R terminal. Look at the positive on the coil, there should be a pinkish brown resistance wire coming from the ignition switch AND one other wire (should be yellow), that is the wire that goes down to the R terminal, check it for continuity from the coil post to where it connects to the R terminal. Insulate all other disconnected wires when doing this until you figure out what they are as they maybe dangling hot wires that could start a fire. Reattach the ground at the battery with the key off and the doors closed, there shouldn't be any arcing. If there isn't any arcing try to start the car.

Be prepared to disconnect the negative on the battery.

Next is to figure out where the extra wires go, a clue will be what doesn't work and it will probably be an aftermarket fixture. Until this is figured out and wired properly the ground on the battery should be disconnected during storage.

 

Here iis a pic of the old starter and how it was installed. It seems to be wired back the same BUT something is clearly different. Wroing starter/solenoid perhaps? But it fits in fine ind did fire up the car fine until it started going crazy.

 

OK. So there are 4 wires coming from the coil. 2 red, a green, and a black. One red and one black go to the distributor. The other red and green go to the starter harness. I believe from what you are saying is that one of these is extra and probably not the original wire as it should be tan. And most likely it should go to the R receptacle. Then I need to track which of the 2 large red wires in the middle and get rid of the other (track it down of course). The car does not look to have any after market stuff done to it but thatdoesnt mean it hasnt had that at some point. SO find the extra larger red wire and disconnect or connect where it should be and take out the extra smaller ed wire from coil and use the green ons as the "tan" lead that goes to thr R. So I should end up with the purple wire to the S receptacle, battery cable to center receptacle, and green wire to R receptable and 2 wires tat I track down and either wire correctly or remove if not needed.

Does that all track? Should there be 2 wires coming from the coil to the distributor?


Sorry for blurry pics. Illl try to get better ones when it isnt getting dark

 

Again follow all the wires and see where they go from the starter. You have too many wires down there from when it was stock, this is something you need to do we can't guess.

 

100%
Just confirming that there should only be 1 wire coming from coil to starter and only 1 larger red coming from batteey the others are likely extra but need to be traced to make sure 100%.from where and corrected or removed.

Color wise im guessing whoever made these changes just used whatevwr they had.

 

The coil - post could have two wires. The original would be black going to the points and condenser. The second wire could be for an aftermarket tachometer.

Yes one wire down to the R terminal from the + coil post.

Are you saying the red and the black both go INTO the distributor? Does the car still have points and condenser or is there some type of module that was used to delete the points and condenser.

 

Ill confirm in better lighting but yeah. 2 wires go towards distributor. 2 go to the starter.
Ill see if its aftermarket add on or something tomorrow

 

Afterthought, is it possible that one of the ring terminals on the positive barely touched the S post? If it did that would cause the starter motor to engage. Probably should look at the ignition switch wiring, hoping the OE color codes and terminals weren't "fixed" the same way.

 

Ill check. and possible on the terminal. I check that too. I think ignition is ok because before the starter swap, there were no such issues.

 

Now I remember.....this is the V-6 that had a 2 barrel slapped on it by a previous owner. Wouldn't you expect other things on the car to be "not quite right" ? I don't want to seem harsh, but be prepared to expect the unexpected. Good luck.

 

Yep. And am totally expecting such... its been a trip figuring stuff out.

Seapping back to 1 barrel definitely fixed that issue.

That said someone near me is selling a 330 engine and th350 thats still running strong and driveable and im seriously considerinf buying it. It is currently in a 65 f85 and i cam drive before i buy, tow my car to his place and hell help swap it in.

 

That sounds like a great opportunity, independent of one another the engine and the transmission would make a big difference, together they will transform the car. If the donor 330 is a '64 the radiator inlet is on the left side, try to get the radiator if they will sell.

 

Yeah. Just have to see if I can fit it in my budget along with install, new exhaust, etc.

So hear is what I found.
There is a read and a black cable (one from each terminal of the coil) to the distributor and a red and gree cable (again, one from each terminal of the coil) running down to the starter)
There is also a green wire running from coil down to the starter.






There are 2 larger red wires that are running to the starter and up the harness and run somewhere Ihavent been able to find in the engine bay (likely back to the dash) I need to cut some cable ties and open up the cable wraps to check those but from what I can tell they should not be there. I am guessing they were ran for some accessories that are no longer present as there are no add ons in the car at all.

AND YES, the large power from the battery was dangerously close to the pruple wire and S terminal which I am guessing is what was causing the jump and automatic start.

 

Also, looking at the wiring diagram I have, the v6 wiring shows a line from the alternator to the starter center point. I am guessing that is one of those heavier red wires. I just need to track that 2nd heavier extra red wire and then figure out the reason the coil has 4 wires and how they should route (and move the main power plug so as to not risk touching the S terminal

 

So the second larger wire appears to go to this on the drivers side fender wall as best as I can tell.