hardtop/ragtop

Hi all,
Happy Thanksgiving to all my fellow Canajians on this site, best wishes to all the US folks as well although your Thanksgiving is a month away. But, it's a beautiful summerlike day here in Nova Scotia so, the best to all of you out there.

I've attached a photo of the cowl tag on a '68 Delta Custom I was going to buy and use for body parts for my '68 Delmont cvt.

This all fell through because the owner wouldn't budge on his price. I made what I thought was a reasonable offer, but no go. I guess maybe he didn't want to sell it badly enough or maybe I just didn't want it badly enough.
I thought his asking price was in excess of what the car was really worth.
I tried to buy this same car 2 years ago but he said he was going to "do 'er up back then. Here's the story..........

He had it listed on Kijiji (2 yrs. ago) and there were no takers so he de-listed it.
I had an ad on Kijiji, (also 2 yrs. ago) looking for a '68 Olds 88 parts car, so he sees my ad and contacts me about his car.
He was trying to decide whether he was gonna sell it or keep it, or whatever; things were sooooooo vague I didn't bother with it any more. It really sounded like he was going to do a resto on it and wasn't really all that keen on selling. No foul, no harm, she's all good.

Then 3 weeks ago he tracks me down at a swap meet and says the car's up for sale again, but he has another guy already interested in it so he gets first shot. I say, fair enough, let me know. The next day he calls to say it's mine if I want to buy it. I went up yesterday for a look-see and brought along some $$$$.

A couple of photos of the car where it sits. Not running, 350 cid. engine locked, bucket seats missing, hood hinges bent, large rust hole in the trunk. He wanted (originally) $2,500.00 and went down to $2,300 (apparently several months ago). I told him I thought he was a bit high on his price and he immediately started on about doing it up himself before letting it go any lower. I said I'd have to give it some thought, he said "OK, fine"; then about a minute later he says, "there'll be no thinking about it, I'll do it up myself, if you don't want it at $2,300, it's not going to be sold. I got kinda turned off with his attitude. I said OK, stuck out my hand and said "nice talking to you" and walked away. I honestly think the car is not worth much more than $1600-$1800 tops. I actually offered more than my high end estimate. Some good sheetmetal for sure but, the brightwork trim is somewhat dented, the interior is trashed, whats left of it, engine stuck, trans condition is unknown, I feel there's just too much wrong for a $2300 price tag.
Maybe I'm wrong but I've seen running complete cars, in decent condition, for that kind of money. I've heard, from members posting on this forum, of better condition B body cars getting crushed.

Here are a couple of photos of the car. Believe me, the photos make the car look better than it actually is.

I woke up this morning and it felt good to have held onto my $$$.
Maybe that means I wasn't meant to buy that particular car. As they say, " everything happens for a reason" so I won't second guess myself.

Hey Kelvin, what do you think of this outcome ?? This is the car I was telling you about. Is that one still alive down your way???

Ron

svnt442

It's a 350? Not the original engine then.
I think he's a bit out on his price for a basically undesirable (no offense) car that is just a collection of parts.

hardtop/ragtop

Oh, no sweat Randy, no offense taken. I realize that B bodies aren't everyone's cuppa tea. I agree about the engine, I'm thinking it should have been a 455. I was told it was a 350 and it does have a 4bbl. carb. It might be a Cheb engine, who knows. I now wish I'd have checked to see what the casting letter/numbers are on the heads.

Can anybody decipher the cowl tag for me ???

I did see another Olds Delta 88 at that same swap meet. It's a '66 Delta 88 Holiday Coupe with factory Buckets, console, auto stick, tach on the console, tilt/telescoping steering column, all original, originally from British Columbia (so I was told) but a real big project, no engine/trans, flat sheetmetal replacement floors, many surface rusty and rust-through spots, needs pretty much everything, crazy priced @ $1,500.00. I would have liked the bucket seats & the steering column out of it for my Delmont cvt. but that's about it. I'm pretty sure it didn't get sold, he said he'd take offers but I don't think anyone bit.

Not much got sold at that swap meet. Anything that did sell went for cheap. I saw real straight & solid pair of '34 Chev front fenders go for $ 80.00. A few years ago, that price would have been laughed at if anyone would have made such an offer. A sign of the economic times.

Ron

Vega

$1500 is as high as id go on that car. I had this discussion a little bit ago with a 67' 442 that was being sold on here. Yes all the collective parts of a car are worth a certain amount but realisticly cars dont sell for what all their parts are worth. And that car, with its condition and relativly low demand, its just not worth it. Like you said, for $2500 you could buy a running and driving one that just needs body work. I feel like you havent heard the last of this guy, he'll probly call you back in a month begging you to buy it for a few hundred less haha

compedgemarine

in reality for that car with all the problems and missing parts it is worth about $500 in scrap weight. sure the parts are worth more but you are not buying just the parts. you could spend $7-8 grand to have a $5000 car. I deal with this all the time. people watch a B-J auction so now the junk in their yard is suddenly gold.

jaunty75

The 350 was the base engine in the Delmont 88 for 1968. The 455 was optional. 1968 was the first year for both engines.

I agree that an asking price of $2300 for this car is about a factor of two to three too high.

hardtop/ragtop

Yes, he possibly just might do that but he'd be wasting his time. If you'd have been there, well let's just say he was getting kind of offensive and started being very cocky. Maybe he didn't realize it but it sure felt that way. I'd be hard pressed to come across with anything even reasonable after the experience I had.

I mean, I was standing there with $100 dollar bills, cash money, and he just blew me off..........geeez, in this economy with a willing buyer making a cash offer within a few hundred of what you want........it just boggles the mind.
I'd be almost willing to bet money that car stays where it is until it gets hauled away for scrap. I might be wrong but that's the feeling I get. It would be a shame because there are good body parts there, just not worth the hassle to deal with someone who thinks they're sitting on a pile of gold.

Before we got to the subject of money, he told me his wife wanted it gone and she was quite pleased with the prospect of it being sold & taken out of the driveway (where it has sat for at least 2 yrs). I wonder what her reaction was to the lost sale? Any opinions out there ?

MDchanic

Agreed. Scrap value only, going by your description of "the photos make the car look better than it actually is."

No engine (effectively), transmission not very valuable, rear not very valuable, frame and front suspension not very valuable, body shot, interior shot, glass not very valuable.
Did I miss anything?

You did well to walk away.

Watch the obituaries - Maybe when he dies, you can intercept the wrecker when it's headed to be crushed.

- Eric

Vega

Yeah, too many people wanting to sit on their classics thinking they've got a gold mine these days. Theres a guy not far from me who has over 9 Trans Ams on his property, most of which being 77-81 2nd gens, has one 70-73 formula, a couple 3rd gens, all of which he has been letting sit, waiting for their market to go up. He's finally started selling off a few of them and parting them out but hes asking too much. Its sad that greedy people ruin muscle/classic cars for the passionate. No wonder so many kids are into tuner cars there days :/

svnt442

Yeah for some reason my mind said it was a 67 so I went with it.

hardtop/ragtop

Hey Eric,

Well, actually the fenders, doors and quarters are quite solid on the car, surprising for a Canadian car. It came out of Labrador where it gets too cold for road salt to work. Consequently, they can only use sand or cinders for winter road maintenance. Thats what kept the body fairly sound. It also has a nice front bumper but the back one is only good as a core.
The other saving grace was that it's located within 40 miles of my place. Could have dollied it home in short order.
Eric, you mention his obituary, do you think his wife would be involved in that????

Ron

aliensatemybuick

Walking away was for the best. Sometimes, for the right car, i.e. something special that you REALLY just gotta have, its not such a bad thing to pony up a little more for it that its worth. But not this car; I suspect the seller will come to regret turning down your offer.

MDchanic

Well, I know my wife will be involved with mine .
... and the day after I die, the wrecker will be there, to haul away all that rusty garbage, if she has her way.

Sounds harsh, but he seems like an older guy, and none of us lasts forever.
My old man got a 1966 Porsche that way once - he kept leaving notes every now and then, and the old guy kept them in a pile, then when he died, his wife found them and called him to haul it away. Of course by then, there wasn't much left of it, but we got some good parts off it anyway.

My best advice would be to contact the wife, tell her that you're willing to pay cash for it (a reasonable amount - not what you offered him), and that she or he can call you if they ever want to sell for that price. You'll probably get a call one day, one way or another, probably from him, with her standing behind him with a gun to his head.

- Eric

2blu442

I don't like being bullied and the way you describe it that's how he was behaving. Plus I agree with the others, the rust in the trunk and froze up engine make it a parts car. $500 would be a fair price to keep what you want and scrap the rest. John

71supreme

It would have been cool to retrieve that car from Labrador, too bad you were dealing with a junkyard dog.

hardtop/ragtop

No, the guy has to be in the 45-50 something age group. Me, I'm in the 63+ age group. He's going to well outlive me, I'm sure.
I left my business card with him, maybe it'll be saved if he's not too pi$$ed at me for walking.
I'll keep an eye on the obits...................

MDchanic

Not if he handles stress like that, he won't.

- Eric

CutlassLegend

$2300 would have been way to high for that car. That guy is what I like to call a "crumb". Keep your eyes open and I am sure between craigslist, Classicolds and internet you will either find the parts or the whole car you are looking for. Once again another guy who watches an auction and thinks his otherwise useless rusting pile of crap suddenly spiked up like the recent gold prices. Sleep happy you are $2300 richer.

hardtop/ragtop

I don't know if he'll ever regret it or not......he was some fanatic about his price.
I've never encountered someone who was that unwilling to make a deal.........just plain hardheaded.
His loss, not mine......I still have my $$$ to find another deal.....he still has an unsold car.
Maybe he'll restore it.........maybe it'll sit where it is....maybe he'll find someone willing to pay his price.....maybe not......

Ron

MDchanic

His wife will finally lose her patience and he'll junk it or sell it to some kid for $100.

- Eric

1969w3155

I believe that he said it was a Delta Custom, so the 455 2bbl (310hp) was std.

rustyroger

Your idea and the vendors idea of what the car is worth are so far apart I doubt you will agree a price acceptable to both parties.
That might change if his circumstances alter substantially but I wouldn't hold your breath.

I have walked away from plenty of sales like this one, no doubt I will do so again.
If it was the last '68 Delta Custom left in Canada then it would be worth lots of $$$, but it isn't so instead of worrying about an overpriced car forget it and look for a better car to for your money.

Roger.

DeltaStew

You did the right thing walking away! He was 1300 too high on beginning negotiations!

aliensatemybuick

Trust me, he'll regret it. He just won't admit it. If he seemed hardheaded, that was just part of the "bluff".

hardtop/ragtop

I honestly think that he didn't really, really want to sell it........just from the way he was acting......that's the only thing that I can come up with. I offered (probably foolishly) an amount that was only $300.00 off his firm price. At least his refusal allowed me to hang onto my $$$.

I also have a '70 Rebel Machine that's in storage waiting for some love. My son is bugging me to do that one first.......I wonder why.........?????

hardtop/ragtop

I arrived home this evening after being away for a couple of days.

A message was waiting for me to call a certain someone, didn't leave a phone #, said I already had it,.......guess who??? Two weeks to the day............

aliensatemybuick

I say you'd be crazy to call him back. Let him regret passing on your offer for the rest of his life, and be happy he did for the rest of yours.

Oldsmaniac

I would say call hm back and see what he has to say....let him do the talking. This is if you really want the car....then tell him you had some unexpected expenses and could only come up with X amount which would be less than you offered before....

hardtop/ragtop

Thanks Guys,

I'll let him do the calling and the talking.

Both good ideas; if there is any contact made, my best offer is going to substantially less than I foolishly offered before. He'll be lucky to pry 1K out of me now.

I don't know, maybe he's just calling to say he got his price for it and I was stupid to pass it up.

Allan R

63+ group huh? Well that goes to prove that us old guys are smarter than the average pooh bah. Re:


To the best of my knowledge, the cowl info means:
09B - Built in the second week of September, 1968
A31 - Power side windows
08 1 1?? I think this is combined with the Body number somehow
ST 68 - 1968 Production year
3 - Oldsmobile Division
66 - Series (Delmont)
87 - Body Style (hardtop coupe)
BL - Linden Production
BODY 189 - unit number assigned by fisher (not part of VIN)
TR 370 - Trim - Interior color - Blue
PAINT F2 - F = Teal Frost 2 =Black vinyl roof

hardtop/ragtop

Allan R

Yup, I'm finding there's a BIG difference between smarter and, and, uh.........remembering too! At least that's what I think I remember bout it....Why just this morning, or was it yesteday? I told my wife I was hungry and she asked what I wanted. I said, "oh leftover spaghetti with some spicy sauce would be great". Off she went. Came back about 30 minutes later with Toast and coffee. I looked at her in disbelief and said, "You forgot the jam!!"

jaunty75

Since this is a 1968 car, that would more likely be September 1967, wouldn't it?

Allan R

ummm, yes. My bad Good catch Jaunty. Doubt that this car will end up in hardtop/ragtop's driveway though. Would be a cool project. Metal looks not bad on the outside. Could always be made into a resto mod.

hardtop/ragtop

Here's what I had in mind for the car.

I was going to remove whatever sheetmetal I could use to replace anything rotten on my cvt. I also intend on doing some mods to the suspension to upgrade things for better roadhandling.

Next, because Oldsmobile didn't make a Delta Custom convertible, I was going to create one using all the Delta Custom specific trim and interior appointments. Kinda similar to what buddy did to a '69 Olds Royale 88; it was featured in the January 2009 issue of Hemmings Classic Car.

I thought it would be very unique and make a entry level car into something special. It's still something I can do, just going to take a little longer to gather up the needed components. Hope I live long enough.

fmbjogger

I flew from PA to Madison, WI this week to view a '75 Delta convert ( 82,000)that was posted on ebay but didn't sell. I needed to be reminded: pictures DO lie.
Car was spot painted in not so subtle shade differences, some rot around rear wells, power windows needed help and a hole in sheet metal below driver headlight among other less obvious defects.
Guy was looking for $7,000. I thought it was worth $4,000. Flew home reminding myself: " you can't make any sales if you don't make any calls"....and a added plus, decent weather for October in Wisconsin !
I'm not in a hurry to spend my cash. What is meant to be is meant to be. Now on to the next car and location.

hardtop/ragtop

Yes, it's amazing what pictures can do for a not so nice auto. I got my crackers pinched by photos too.......only I consumated the deal because it was an e-vilBay purchase and the guy swore up and down that the car was in really good condition so the money was sent via bank draft. Yes, I got somewhat screwed over but that seller will get his in the end. I am a firm believer in Kharma, I could spread the guys name all over the internet..... but I'll let nature take its course.
Moral of the story....get an in person inspection or have someone trustworthy go have a looksee and report back any hidden/unadmitted faults. I wish I'd have done so......too late smartened up.

Allan R

Truer words were never spoken. If it was an evilbay purchase and the car was not properly represented, you should have been able to back out and get your money back using dispute resolution. Always remember that 'really good condition' is subject to what a person is used to looking at. Obviously the seller was used to looking at junk, you are used to looking at quality.

If using someone else's word to inspect, make sure it's someone you know or trust.

Photos can be 'doctored' or if low quality the details are just not there. 'Good' photos generally represent well. The problem is that most sellers don't know how to take photos, and they never post enough of them showing any details......

hardtop/ragtop

Hey Allan,

Any old car wrecking yards or goodies hidden away in farmers fields out your way???

I always heard the praire provs. were loaded with lots of cars waiting to donate parts or be adopted for restoration. Surely there's an abandoned '67-68 "B" body just waiting to swooped down upon and ravaged by someone like me????????Huh....Huh....No....Yes....Perhaps....Ma ybe....Eh ?????

The furthest west I've been is Winnipeg back in '76 (GO JETS...ha ha..take that Bettman) and I was bowled over with the number of older cars still being driven on a daily basis. The beauty of no salt on the roads. I've heard that Saskatchewan and Alberta have many little troves of cars. I know of one guy who has a whole batch of AMC cars....I've bought stuff from him for my '70 Rebel. Trouble is, he only has AMC stuff.

So, where is all the GM stuff hidden ??? Can you give me any insight ??? I'd be eternally grateful, at least up until I croak........

Your Oldsmobile compatriot from the rusty East Coast.

carmax

This 67 down here in Iowa sounds interesting (loaded 2dr) and priced only a little high. Wish it had pictures.

http://ottumwa.craigslist.org/cto/2696854293.html

Carmak
Riverside, Iowa