Has anyone ever swapped out a 394 and tranny from a early 60s full sized (61-64) with 400-425-455 engine. I plan on backing it up with a 400 tranny. I understand that quite a bit will have to be fabricated but I am looking for ideas on the best way to make this happen. Thanks, Dean

 

I did some years back. It wasnt that hard really. Just had to make custom motor mounts, make our own crossmember, and use a different driveshaft. It was all stuff we had around so it didnt really even cost anything. I think we had to swap a Ujoint for the rear end of the driveshaft. I have pics somewhere.

 

If you have some pics of the custom mounts I would love to see them. I am getting ready to mock up everything and am curious if I use the forward block mounts would this line up with the frame cross member to bolt the mounts to that or if I need to fab a mount extension off of the back of the cross member to make this work and give me enough adjustment to set the transmission to the proper pinion angle. Thanks, Dean

 

If it's a '64, then you can use Jetstar engine mounts. Since the Jetstar used a 330, the mount locations on the block should be in the same place as a 400/425/455.
The crossmember can be moved easily or with a lot of welding, depending on your frame type.

 

Unfortunately, it's not that easy. The 64 J88 frame has welded tabs that mate the the 330 motor mounts. The other full size cars don't have them. You can replicate the tabs (just pieces of flat stock with a hole) and use the 330 mounts, but that requires machining and welding. Of course the other problem is that no one makes replacement motor mounts for the J88, so unless you have a used pair (Steele Rubber will revulanize them), you are S.O.L.

 

I have not compared the engine mounts side by side and in my hand but it appears the only difference is that the frame mounting stud is centered on the Jetstar mount and the other 65 up B body mounts have the stud to the side. I would think if this is the case the steel could be drilled and tapped for the center stud?

 

I still got to dig up some pics for you. Its on one of them little memory sticks. (that i cant find)

 

I thought about using the mounts for a Jetstar 88 since I knew they used the 330 motor. Decided against it since the stud mounts looked weak to me to hold up to a warmed over 425. Besides the 330 engine mounts are much taller that what is used on the big motors. I got the engine and tranny mocked up in the bay and surprising enough the S exhaust manifold looks like it was made for this car. It is a perfect fit for the steering box and knuckle. Dean

 

I would appreciate it but I am afraid the 330 mounts would be too weak for the big motors with the stud arrangement.

 

I have some 330 rubber mounts and have now ordered some 65 425 mounts. Should be much shorter that the 330 mounts. That should minimize the fab I need to do to make this work. Dean

 

I didn't think about that. I thought Oldsmobile just put the mounting locations for both engines on the frame, but GM being GM, I shouldn't assume anything like such.
And, great news! http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/de...QWSEM2263.html

 

You are correct that the 65-70 mounts (Anchor P/N 2262 and 2263) are still available. If you were making mount plates to weld to the frame, this might not be an issue. I don't know if there's clearance to slot the holes in the stock brackets.

 

The 65-70 mounts are the same P/N for the 330, 350, 425, and 455. The same part was used on all motors in those cars.

 

I will soon find out. My understanding is the mounts for the smaller engines is different that the big motors due to the deck height of the block. I believe the difference in deck height is about an inch. Dean

 

Sorry, but you are not correct.

I'll say it again: The 1965-70 full size cars used THE EXACT SAME motor mounts for ALL available engines. These are Anchor P/N 2262 and 2263 (for RH/LH). The deck height is irrelevant. What matters is the location of the motor mount attaching features relative to the crank centerline, and this is EXACTLY THE SAME on ALL 1964-1990 Olds V8s (again, except the 1964 394 motor). Please see this thread:

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...tion-list.html

 

Honestly, it may be easier to stay with the 394 and put a TH400 behind it. I swear i've seen conversion kits.
There's nothing wrong with the 394, other than maybe the cost of parts, but I don't think we're in this hobby because it's cheap.

 

You have:

http://www.transmissionadapters.com/Olds_install.htm



The cool thing about the first gen Olds V8 is the wide availability of aftermarket intakes. Six or eight 2bbls, superchargers, etc.

 

Well, now I am good and confused. The first pic shows what I thought was 330 mounts I picked up quite a few years ago. The one on the left is what showed up from USA Parts. The last pic shows the "330" mounts and the frame plate that mounts to it perfectly. Maybe this is a 330 mount but for a A body. Does anyone have pics of a 65 thru 67 B body with the engine removed showing the frame mounts? I think these new mounts will work better but I would like to see how Olds originally installed them. Thanks for the input. Dean

 

I attached 3 pics but they did not post. Dean

 

Let's try this again

 

That would have been an idea except the original 394 was seized up from my father in law when he owned it and I have 2 425 engines laying around with a BOP 400 tranny ready to go. Already gave away the original motor and tranny to a local guy with a very clean 64 88 hard top 2 door. Besides it is easier to make better power on the 425s to handle this 64 convertible. Dean

 

These are A-body motor and frame mounts (the motor mounts are Anchor P/N 2261). Note that these same mounts are used on ALL Olds motors installed in A-body cars for the 1964-68 model years (330 through 455).



The 1965-1970 mounts (Anchor 2262/2263) have a threaded stud. This stud passes through a hole in the crossmember and a nut and washer are installed from the bottom. On the 1964 J88, there are two welded tabs on the backside of the crossmember that have holes. The 64 motor mounts look just like the 65-70 mounts, but the threaded stud is centered (the RH/LH mounts on the 65-70 cars have the threaded stud offset). Due to the use of front cover mounts on the 394, the crossmember on the 61-64 frames is much further forward than on the later cars. That's why the welded tabs hang off the backside of the crossmember.

 

Joe, so does the 65 thru 67 big motor mounts with the stud have a frame side part of the engine mount like the A body mounts or do they sit directly on the cross member?

 

From above:

 

By the way, if you are thinking you can simply drill holes in your crossmember and use the 65-70 mounts, see the post above:

 

I thought you were talking about the J88 mounts in that thread. With the offset studs in the 65-67 mounts, part of the mount could be into the original cross member of the 64 but not all of it. I would probably still need to weld a plate onto the cross member to let the mount sit squarely.

 

I still think it would be easier to get another 394, maybe as a trade for some combination of 425s/TH400s. Having the original engine, plus not having to mess with the mounts, would be worth it.
And you can get plenty of power out of a 394, you'll just have to pay a little more.
You could always fabricate mounts for the 425, but then you would lose all the refinement rubber mounts bring.

 

I'm not sure what that means, as you'd still be using rubber motor mounts. Dean's talking about fabricating the plates like those on the 64 J88 frame that the factory 330 mounts attach to.

One other mounting method to consider for the 61-64 full size cars is to get the front mount from a Toronado. The 66-78(ish) Toros used a plate that bolts to the front cover with a rubber mount at the bottom of it. This will line up nearly perfectly with the crossmember in the 61-64 frames. Fabricate a couple of side mounts that attach with the bellhousing bolts and the later drivetrain drops in using the stock mount locations. The 79-85 Toros with Olds motors used a similar front mount but there are two rubber mounts in that configuration. These may also work.

 

Joe, I looked at your page and the drawings for the Toronado. I am not familiar with the aft mounting for the Toros or how this would work. I have got the engine and tranny mocked up exactly where they need to be and everything lines up great using the S exhaust manifold on the left side and even using the stock fan shroud from the 394 installation. I have 65 accessory mounts for a non AC engine (not easy to find) and everything works. I have ordered universal mount from tdperformance.com and plan on using the mid mount hole and welding the custom crossmember into place. Honestly with everything mocked up along with the radiator shrouds it looks like a factory installation. Even the center link for a stock 5 quart pan ( I have a Toro oil pan from a 72 455 Toro and it does not work on this) lines up with the center link on the steering going from stop to stop.

 

By the way. Any ideas on a radiator for this installation? The 394 bottom hose is on the wrong side and I would much rather have a good cross flow radiator than the old up and down style. I am afraid my only option is a custom unit and those can get pricey. Dean

 

The up-down style works just fine, if you get it flushed and make sure everything's clean in the rest of the cooling system. And you can make the stock radiator work by using the 1964 Jetstar 88 water pump, which is a one-year part and will work on a 425. As long as you're not racing, it'll cool the engine fine. I've been using this pump, plus an original radiator, on my 88 for 3+ years of daily driving, and it has never overheated.

 

I was thinking about making the mounts themselves and using the existing holes, but in hindsight, that isn't a good idea.

 

Any idea where to find one. Both USA parts and Kanter don't show them. Dean

 

Also, is the dimensions the same for the 64 and 65 radiators? Dean

 

I dropped my '65 425/400 combo into the bay of a '62 Super 88 this past weekend and I'm thinking the Jetstar mounts are going to be the answer.
The engine needs to get very low to get the T400 lined up straight, so the lower pulley needs to actually nestle almost into the crossmember and the distributor gets very close to the firewall this way.
I was happy to see the '65 oilpan sits perfect. I'll have to investigate the S exhaust, I'm not familiar with the term. There is definitely no space for the stock '65 crossover pipe in front of the pan in the '62.
I was given a welded up tranny crossmember that I did not even try yet as I need to get engine mounts sorted out.

I think I got the 65 radiator in the deal, I'll look this weekend and see if it has a prayer of fitting the '62.

 

Exhaust is going to define where the engine and tranny sit in this install. If you can't make the crossover work you are either going to use the S manifold on the left side or make a custom exhaust and space is very limited on the left side. With the combo resting where it needs I feel a custom rear links will be required. Spohn.net will be the answer here. By the way you can make the original radiator work here. Just get a 64 Jetstar 88 water pump. Dean

 

I did my final mockups today. First pic shows that a 79-85 Toro mount will not work. I don't have any other Toro mounts to check, but I was never too excited about a single front mount anyway.
Second pic is engine placed where the Jetstar tabs would support the engine.
Third pic shows that a T400 longshaft lines up straight when the engine is on Jetstar tabs. The T400 tranny mount came with the car, mounting will have to be from the bottom, which I feel is better than notching the rolled edge of the frame to put it above.

I did get the 62 88 radiator with the car, so I ordered my 64 Jetstar water pump today. Engine fits real nice, the air cleaner nestles into the cutout in the hood insulation just like factory.

I do not own an S exhaust manifold. I immediately saw why the Starfire dual exhaust left side manifold did not come in the 88, the column shift levers are right where the exhaust pipe would go. I will probably still go with this manifold as the column shifter will be incorrect and I can mount a floor shifter in the car.

 

There are repos of the S manifold. You will need to delete the column shifter for a floor shifter. I have the engine mounts located and tack welded for the 65 and later big block 88s. I am gone next week on a business trip but next weekend I can send pics of what I got so far. You could do a single exhaust with a cross over from the left side but I don't know how much room is available with the aft steering linkage. Dean

 

Sorry it took me so long. But i finally tracked down the pics. What we ended up doing was making solid mounts off the front crossmember. And used a pc of steel channel to make a crossmember for the trans and used washers to shim the trans to the height we needed. I ended up just using junk i had in stock. It worked great! Here are some pics.

 

Wow, solid mounts, that will be a shaker. With the single mount hole on either side I hope the vibration does not break the welds. Have you done anything to locate the engine for the exhaust you plan to use on the left side? Locating the assy without the exhaust is simple. Doing it with the exhaust you plan to use makes it alot more of a challenge. Dean